by Jerry Finch and R.T. Fitch
So out of the clear blue sky the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) decides to round up the small, yet internationally famous, wild horse herd in the Pryor Mountains, MT while the public screams stop and they refuse to listen. We think that there is something that does not smell, or taste, just quite right, here.
It would be a real stretch of imagination for us to question the integrity of a government agency, like the BLM, simply because it has repeatedly violated federal law, laughed at our law makers and thumbed it’s nose at the will of the American people while failing to live up to one of it’s prime directives; that of protecting our national treasure, our publicly owned wild horses on publicly owned land.
No, we wouldn’t do that.
Uranium, is it holding our wild horses hostage and who is behind the plan?
Nor would we cast aspersions on a company that holds the rights to explore for uranium throughout the Pryor Mountains because it’s parent company is owned and operated through a convoluted trail that points to a middle eastern firm with dubious connections where the company officers/advisors are already in trouble with world-wide trade commissions for stock scams and multiple other violations of law.
Gosh, the thought never entered our minds.
But we do raise our eyebrows at the fact that when this uranium mining company begins to make sounds that it may want to conduct aerial seismographic surveys over the Pryor Mountains the BLM suddenly deems it necessary to round up all of the wild horses in the area for an alleged much needed gather, something that they have not done in over a decade (the American public is banned from their public land during the round-up, something to hide?). And why, because of over grazing and the horses, allegedly, are suffering for it. All of this in light of the fact that it has been graphically documented that the horses are in good health, the area is not over grazed and the BLM’s own studies are riddled with multiple errors and if challenged in a court of law could be found to be illegal.
Yes, we do have a problem with this, and so should you.
So let’s step behind the bar, mix-up this entire concoction up and see what we come up with. Yum yum, we bet it tastes pretty special to some people but to others it will have a distinctive odor about it.
The BLM mixes a deadly concoction for our native, American Wild Horses
First, let’s mix in one part BLM, the agency that is charged with protecting our wild horses yet indiscriminately decides to conduct deadly stampedes to corral and then sell them off for next to nothing to killer buyers who truck them down to the brutal slaughter houses in Mexico where they can make a ten-fold profit; tasty little morsel, there. (Let’s ignore the fact that they now have over 30,000 wild horses confined and living in pens that they wanted to kill, last year, yet they continue to gather more)
The next step is to pour in equal amounts of a company called Skyline Uranium Corp. formerly known as Uranium Mining & Exploration Projects that is owned by a parent company referred to as Fortress Financial Group, Inc. which engages in issuing prepaid debit and credit cards and was formerly known as the Great West Gold Inc. which itself was recently acquired by Moneyworx, Inc. through a reverse merger transaction while the company officers work on the staff of one of the biggest law firm/companies in all of the United Arab Emirates. Phew, did you catch all that?
Now pour in a generous amount of the U.S. Federally owned Pryor Mountains, formerly rich in uranium and gold , and shake vigorously.
Don’t forget to crush in some tree hugging do-gooders, strain out a few wild horses and garnish it with just a slice of bribery and then pour this concoction over a heaping pile of ice cold elected officials, wow…what a drink; a true recipe for collusion and corruption. One that is already in the glass and being toasted by the covert, limited parties involved. Mighty tasty, eh?
Now we are not postulating, here, that imbibing of this beverage is either right or wrong; but we do think that because you, the American public, is paying for the bar tab you should at least be aware of what you are paying for, it’s only fair.
If this tastes good to you, then pull up a stool, take a sip and lose your soul.
If it smells like horse poop to you, and it should, pick up the phone, hammer on the key board and let your opinion be known. Maybe it’s time to swear off the booze of collusion/corruption and get back on the wagon of proper ethics. Such a move will not only be good for your mental health and pocketbook but it will save the lives of thousands of wild horses living on your land, land that belongs to the American public.
Push the glass away, and make a stand. The horses are counting on it.
Keep your change, the tip is on us.
Jerry Finch – Founder/President of Habitat for Horses, writer
R.T. Fitch – Board member for Habitat for Horses, author of “Straight from the Horse’s Heart”
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Categories: Horse News, Horse Slaughter, The Force of the Horse, Wild Horses/Mustangs
Straight from the Horse's Heart 
Well of course. It had to be something like this; the roundup of the Cloud Herd and emptying the land didn’t pass the smell test, even for the BLM. Cattle wouldn’t be enough of a kickback.
For those old enough to remember, this is starting to look a whole lot like kidnapping the beloved Lassie to put up a big box store on Timmy’s farm.
Cocktail? Nah, tea time. Time for Americans to tea bag the BLM. Great job, RT.
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This whole thing has smelled from the very first with the appointment of Salazar as Sec. of the DOI and Abbey as BLM Director. The Prors Mt. horses aren’t the only ones being wiped out though. It is a conspiracy for extinction IMO.
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The conspiracy is wide spread..Horses will be gone before we can blink an eye. All federal offices lie to us. I’m really getting pisd!!! I regret supporting President Obama financially and on grassroots level. BLM and Game and Fish are equally corrupt. My grief is now replaced with anger!!!
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Dont blame Obama for this, this is the last of the greed slipping out of the last…years… these are the people cornered by banking controls, by possible BLM budget cuts..by all of use screaming DONT kill our horses loud enough to be heard in DC. contact your senators now with this info. tell them to put a moritorium on wild horse round ups until a better form of management can be worked out…
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GOOD JOB RT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are awesome…
(:
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Greed, the master of disguise…strikes again at the cost of our wild mustangs, land and integrity. The BLM/Salazar does believe we are stupid and by his arrogance, ineffectual…we are not. What we are is less strong then they are…how do we can an advantage here? Do a background check on Salazar? find some political/personal dirt and expose him…he has to be taken out of office and the soldiers will fall behind him…and we have to go on the offense, not the defense…who can help…we need big time money and legal clout…my thinking cap is on.
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This is scary, bad. Money. Money. Money. And our beautiful, now-endangered wild horses are standing on it.
I am still looking for the “rule of law and transparency” that Americans were promised by President Obama.
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To date, the “animal friendly” Obama administration has come up very, very short!!!
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Tell me about it. A lot of us voted for that guy thinking he’d do right and really be animal friendly, especially given his track record. But the Obama Administration really seems to be worse than the Bush Administration so far, they’ve gone back on a lot of campaign promises.
The only reason I didn’t vote for McCain was Palin, the poster child for the homicidal hunter type and the far right fringe. McCain actually has a good track record on Humane issues, so I regret not voting for him now.
If the Republicans run a good Moderate candidate in 2012, they might just get my vote back.
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Do we hold any hope with John McCain being one of the Senators on the Committee for Energy and Natural Resources? Will he be a strong proponent of ROAM?
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So much disingenuity leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Its not just the horses losing freedom here. WAKE UP America!
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This makes me ill. I have called, emailed, faxed, but I feel helpless and hopeless. I am not suprised by this at all……..
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The BLM is the only organization in this country that is allowed to monopolize and break every legislated law created.. Just take a look at our wild horse situation and how it has been manipulated by the very organization that is responsible for the well being of our wild horses. They have failed miserably as the caretakers of a part of our heritage. The BLM and everyone involved must be held accountable for what they have willfully done to Americas wild horses.
The BLM acronym really is just another way of saying The Bureau of Liars and Manipulators..
After 37 years of studying wild horses in the field up close and personal I have come to one conclusion! The BLM does not act alone..Yes we know about the cattle ranchers,mineral miners etc etc..The BLM is just part of the equation..Amongst the collusive cocktail that RT cordially explained,the BLM,The US Fish Game and Wildlife,the US Forest Service and some state Agricultural Departments supply the BLM with fabricated wild horse consensus reports. Instead of the BLM investigating these reports they take them for verbatim and remove horses in mass numbers! The over bloated numbers which are declared by these federal agencies are dictated for the sole purpose of supply and demand of horses for human consumption. Seriously! Why would it matter to mineral prospecting if wild horses were present! Truth? It doesn’t matter! To try to justify wild horse removal by connecting mineral excavation to wild horse removal is like trying to connect Adam and Eve to the big bang theory. It just does not add up!
The eradication of wild horses from our rangelands is and always has been about the black market horse slaughter for human consumption. It is only until recently that we have been made aware of the truth of what has been happening to our wild horses. Even the fallacy of 33,000 horses being held in captivity in holding facilities was a clever rouse by the BLM..They wanted people to believe that there were actually that many horses being held somewhere..Where? There is not, and never was such places to facilitate that many horses.. If anyone would like to show me these places I will be more than happy to go for the ride. The truth of the matter is the rounded up horses never reached that collective amount.The horses were shipped and slaughtered well before Madeleine Picken’s ever thought of her rescue. One can only imagine what Madeleine Picken’s thoughts were when she was told she couldn’t see the horses because they weren’t available to be seen. Ever wonder why Madeleine hasn’t brought it up since? Do you thinks it’s because she was satisfied with the BLM’s explanation? Think again! The 33,000 never existed! I personally sought out these supposed BLM holding facilities and I had not saw one that had more than a few hundred horses on,in or near it! Let alone 33,000!
Come on America! Wake up and smell the BS!
In conclusion of RT’s collusion cocktail.. I just wanted to add a little spice to this malicious Margarita! Either way you stir this volatile mix you will find yourselves waking up with a relentless hang over!
I will be back with more!
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Mustang Jack, I fear you are telling the truth ,sad as it is. Too many unidentified horses have been sent across the borders. Hopefully all the corruption will be unearthed and the horse thieves get what’s coming to them.
Congressman Grijalva has sent a letter to Abbey that hopefully will stop the roundups until the ROAM Act can be passed in the Senate.
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read the ROAM act…it leaves population control to the discretion of the management (BLM) It doesnt stop any of this.
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Thanks for the superb commentary on the BLM’s assault on the mustangs. Only yesterday did I learn of the uranium connection and that explains a GREAT deal.
My son is at Pryor Mt. with the protest group and stated that NBC had a film crew on the scene. Those news cameras need to be rolling if the BLM proceeds with plans for the roundup. The public needs to observe the helicopters running the horses to exhaustion and the mares about to foal who will lose their young. I would think that comments from the public urging NBC to air their videos would be helpful.
Two national talk shows will also be carrying stories about the roundups, but too late to bring attention to the current situation.
I agree with those who are dreadfully disappointed in Salazar and in turn with Obama. Guess it could have been worse with Palin in charge of the slaughter of wildlife. but I had such hope that we might have elected an intelligent, compassionate administration. On with the battle I guess. We CANNOT give up… EVER
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Kathleen, which 2 talk shows were those? I had not heard about this – maybe they can still be heard on thier websites
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If this round up takes place it will set a prescedence for the willfull removal of other bands for the sole purpose of land and mineral mongering. The horses no longer have a place here according to the BLM. In fact they never did!
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Excellent commentary! You hit the nail right on the head…
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I agree with everything you wrote Mustang Jack,thank you, the BLM has been lying to the public about thier numbers, the adoptions, the vegetation the water. They block thier water supplies off. They barricaded them, where’s the free roaming ?. I trust none of them where horses are concerned both demesticated and wild. Money is behind it all and it needs to stop, the round ups the transporting of our horses out of this country to get butchered. The BLM needs to be investigated and the horses need to be counted. When we find out exactly how many they destroyed it will be devastating, but it is a fact we have to know. Your right Kathleen we can never give up, I for one will fight this till my last breath.
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The media needs to be pushed to get up to Pryor Mt. to document this debacle. And any of you who can also get up there to protest as close as possible to the area they plan to gather the horses. Members of Native American tribes that care about what is happening to their horse brothers need to get up there, too. Remember Wounded Knee? This could be as big a deal as that disaster, too. If the media thinks there will be a like confrontation, they may be motivated to show up and we all know cruelty doesn’t like the spotlight. The BLM needs to be exposed for the corrupt, cold-blooded bunch of b….ds they are.
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Click Here to visit The Cloud Foundations YouTube page.
Famous Wild Horse Herd Granted Two-Day Reprieve from Massive Roundup Monday, 31 August 2009 21:06
Press Release
BILLINGS, MONTANA- AUGUST 31, 2009: The Pryor Mountain Wild Horses, perhaps best known from the popular Cloud: Wild Stallion of the Rockies PBS Nature series, have two more days of freedom before an unprecedented round up could begin. The Pryors roundup has been delayed for two days to allow Judge Sullivan of the Federal District Court to hear the case brought against the BLM by The Cloud Foundation and Front Range Equine Rescue.
The Bureau of Land Management, responsible for managing wild horses on public lands in the United States, plans to round up all the horses in Montana’s only remaining wild herd and remove 70 horses plus four or more foals. This will leave a non-viable herd of only 120 horses according to respected equine geneticist, Gus Cothran, Ph.D., of Texas A&M University. The Pryor Mountain wild horses are a unique Spanish herd renowned for their primitive markings, historical connections, and spectacular habitat.
BLM is dispatching National Wild Horse and Burro Program staff for this round up, perhaps because they expect trouble from humane advocates who are currently being prevented from observing this roundup. “Never before in my experience have plans been so vague and operations so secret in the Pryors,” says Ginger Kathrens, Volunteer Executive Director of The Cloud Foundation.” The BLM will be closing down roads to the mountain top where the majority of the herd spends their days grazing peacefully in their subalpine meadows. Young foals, only days old will be driven by helicopters and are in serious danger of being hurt or killed. Billings BLM Field Manager Jim Sparks told one advocate that they would expect a loss of 2% or six horses as a result of this operation.
The BLM has always had signs posted at the entrances to the horse range that tell the public to ‘report violations of harassment, death or removals.’ “Why are they above the law?” Asks Crow Tribe Historian and Elder, Howard Boggess. “Everything that is against the law for me they are planning to do to these horses. This is a very sad thing as far as I’m concerned. The horses have lived here for over 200 years. Even under the harassment of the BLM they’ve survived since 1971.”
The BLM claims that it is necessary to remove 70 horses in order to “maintain a thriving ecological balance.” However, the range is still green in late August following three years of above average precipitation after a multi-year drought. The horses are fat, preparing to go into winter. “Why are they removing nearly half the horses after the drought is over? I’ve told them [the BLM] if you take these 70 horses you’ve destroyed the bloodline, the gene pool will no longer be there,” continues Boggess. “Their whole goal is to get rid of the horses.”
“What they are proposing to do is criminal— people locally and all across the Nation worked so hard to save these horses from eradication in 1968,” explains Kathrens. “This range was specially designated for wild horses, the first of its kind in the nation. This is their refuge and it is about to be invaded.”
The BLM plans to remove 17 horses over ten years old and by BLM’s Standard Operating Procedures, “old, sick or lame horses shall be destroyed.” “When they take out the old horses they remove the ones that know the way to the water, the good grass, the way around the canyon – they’re taking out all of the knowledge of the herd,” Boggess explains. “It is really sad to sit there and look at the horses and think that in the next ten days they’ll be taken off this range and they’ll never see it again.”
This case is scheduled to be heard on Wednesday, September 2nd, and thousands of people around the United States and the world await the decision of Judge Sullivan which will decide the fate of the unique and beloved Pryor Wild Horse Herd.
Please Keep Calling! Wednesday, 26 August 2009 13:46
WE ARE MAKING A DIFFERENCE! KEEP CALLING
We’ve just been told that BLM Director Bob Abbey is meeting with other officials regarding this round up due to the number of calls and e-mails they are receiving. KEEP IT UP- KEEP CALLING, FAXING AND E-MAILING.
These are our wild horses living on our public lands!
HALT THE PRYORS ROUND UP and all others across the west.
BLM Director Bob Abbey
Call: 202-208-3801 or 866-468-7826
Fax: 202-208-5242
Robert_Abbey@blm.gov This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
Help us keep you updated– join Cloud on Facebook and Twitter now! 11th Hour for Cloud’s Herd – Act Now!!! Wednesday, 26 August 2009 13:11
Please act now to stop this unnecessary and cruel round up— the BLM still plans to move forward on September 1st
The Bureau of Land Management is rounding up and eliminating 12 herds (650 horses) off 1.4 million acres in Nevada right now– next they plan to destroy Cloud’s herd with a massive removal of 70 horses that would include OLDER HORSES and YOUNG FOALS.
Many of the horses you have come to love in the Cloud shows and will meet in the new Cloud show on October 25th will lose their families and their freedom next week. By zeroing out whole herds and reducing others to below genetic viability, the BLM is circumventing the will of Congress. The House just passed the Restoring of American Mustangs (ROAM) act and the Senate will review this bill (now S.1579) when they return from recess in September. Is BLM just trying to do as much irrevocable damage to America’s wild horses as they can before Congress can act?
This round up will start on September 1st unless we can stop it. Removing 70 horses will destroy this unique little Spanish herd, leaving them well below the bare minimum for genetic viability. The range is in great condition and the horses are healthy. This removal should be stopped. Please do all you can to help! Listen to Ginger Kathrens on Endangered Stream Live– a special edition show “Angels for Cloud”
National Call in Day for Cloud is Friday, August 28th — SPREAD THE WORD! Have your kids call in and write too– These horses need to be preserved for future generations and we must act NOW
1. Call/write/fax President Obama as often as you can—this herd is a national treasure and should not be wiped out by a government agency. Please flood the phone lines with calls! Phone: 202-456-1111 or 202-456-9000 Fax: 202-456-2461
E-mail Obama
2. Ask Secretary of Interior Ken Salazar to stop this round up
Call: 202-208-3100
Write: This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
3. BLM Director Bob Abbey, tell him to halt this round up– he must reconsider his agency’s actions
Call: 202-208-3801 or 866-468-7826
Fax: 202-208-5242
This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
4. Call and write your own Senators and Congress people- tell them that Montana is allowing the destruction of Cloud’s unique and historical wild horse herd. Politely express your outrage and ask them to help stop this round up. Find your state offices here
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WARNING! For those of you that may attend any protests regarding the stoppage of ANY round-ups….MUST NOT! I REPEAT! MUST NOT INTERFERE OR IMPEDED IN THEIR PROGRESS IN ANY WAY! PERSONS INVOLVED WILL BE ARRESTED,CHARGED,FINED,AND PROBABLY SENTENCED TO JAIL TIME FOR OBSTRUCTING A FEDERAL COURT ORDER and it’s OPERATIONS! Believe me! I know! I have crossed that line in the past and they DO NOT mess around.
If anyone is planning or going to rally then please do it in a way that will not be disgraceful to our collective cause and effort as one force!
REMEMBER! It’s your constitutional right to “PEACEFUL ASSEMBLY” Keyword! Peaceful! So please keep yourselves in check and be careful what you say and do! Your opinions still can be heard,even with a whisper!
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It’s the negative publicity bred in such articles like in the one writen by Fox News writer William La Jeunesse on July 29,2009. His opening paragragh isntantaneously thrusted it’s readers into a false sense of urgency by saying,
“Taxpayers could be on the hook for $700 million if a measure to put wild horses back home on the range passes Congress”.
First of all, William has no idea what the cost will be to expand wild horse rangelands because the BLM has no clue what the cost would be..
This particular writer, like so many other writers are so far out of touch with reality that they write things just to write them. They quote figures in their articles for the eye popping WOW factor. The sad part about it is..The people that read this nonsense believe it! Writers like Mr.La Jeunesse don’t care if their sources are correct or accurate. And we sometimes wonder why issues like these are swept under the proverbial carpet.
Mr.La Jeunesse adds more absurdity to his commentary by supplimenting it with more falsified information from One Rep. Louie Gohmert of R-Texas.
Mr Gohmert goes onto say, “People have lost their jobs. They can’t keep their homes. And the answer to people losing their homes is — let’s go spend $700 million for homes and welfare for wild horses?..
Well the one thing that Mr Gohmert didnt tell you is he isn’t one of those people that lost their jobs!And he also didnt tell you he is one of the morons that opted to bailout his Wall Street buddies.
So why should Rep.Gohmert care about wild horse? He wouldn’t know a wild horse from an elephant even if he fell over it!
My point is that its people like these and their comments that keep the horses from getting a fair shake.They make the rest of the world that lives in a bubble think the horses are a drain and a liability. When in fact its the peoples own representatives that keep them living in their bubble.
The truth of the matter is that in order for the United States Department of the Interior to expand wild horse roaming ranglands from 33 million acres to 56 million would cost 0.00 dollars!
How so?
The 23 million acre differential is a mere fraction of what has been taken from this American icon over the last 40 years. When horses are removed from public lands by the BLM for ecological purposes, the grazing ranges are reduced in order to circumvent irreversable land degradation. However, the BLM never returns the amount of grazable land back to the horses once it has been replenished to a viable state,nor are the horses to any degree allowed to return.
The land was the horses to beign with! So why should it cost tax payers one penny for land that was stolen from them?
The 700 million dollar bill that Mr.La Jeunesse is talking about is a fallacy.. A mere figment of someones imagination to cause riff in order for bills like HR 1018 to be turned down.
The BLM sure dont have a problem with allowing 3 million cattle and 1 million sheep to open graze and trample on protected federal land do they? The BLM also doesn’t care how decimated the rangelands are after ranchers move on with their livestock. How about the 500 million dollars plus per year that it costs to assess rangelnads for grazing for livestock? No one mentions those little details.
Has any of you seen what the once pristeen landscape looks like after 5,000 head of cattle move through? Not to mention the wildlife that graze upon the upturned earth which the cattle so severely trample to a state of no return.? Yet the horses get the bum wrap..The ranchers,miners and agriculture departments are allowed to willfully destroy a national treasure. And we as a people have to just sit here and wait for the shoe to drop from Congress and the Senate to determine the fate of our wild horse..
Once again America, this is a prime example of our wonderful leaders picking and choosing the bureuacrats that preserve and protect our heritage.
Pretty scarey huh?
The article quoted in this commentary can be found @ http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/29/critics-worry-measure-save-wild-horses-taxpayer-drain/
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The judge has ruled against the horses. The roundup will start tomorrow( Thurs.). ! I just called the White House again.
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Sorry guys but I have been a bad “blogger” as we flew out to Montana and now in Wyoming with Ginger and her crew. Not much time in front of the computer but as you already know, the injunction did not fly.
But we are still at it and Ginger has been working this issue for a long time.
We are headed up the mountain, tomorrow, to observe and will give you an update.
Please, don’t give up and there seems to be a ground swell of effort to call the President, tomorrow, to stop this madness…jump on board, we are not toast yet!
R.T.
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Q&A on the Pryor Mountain Wild Horse Herd Gather..
This is how the BLM and Salazar try to explain things away!
This is right from the BLM! The true axis of evil!
http://www.doi.gov/contact.html
Why is the BLM gathering the Pryor herd?
The gather is necessary to achieve a thriving natural ecological balance on the Pryor Mountain Wild Horse Range (PMWHR) over the next several years. In addition, some wild horses are now permanently residing outside the PMWHR. Vegetation monitoring data shows the 38,000-acre PMWHR does not have the capacity to sustain the current wild horse population over the long-term on healthy rangelands. We’ve been hearing statements that the range is in excellent shape. This is simply not true. Several studies over the past few years show that parts of the range are in very poor condition. These range studies were comprehensive and quantified. The higher and lower elevations of the range are suffering resource damage. Use of the middle part of the range is limited due to few water sources. The BLM is prohibited from allowing a “deterioration of the range associated with an over-population” (Wild Free-Roaming Horses and Burros Act of 1971). In our 2009 herd area management plan (HMAP), we proposed to develop some mid-range water which would achieve a more even use of the range. However, the 2009 HMAP is being appealed and so cannot yet be implemented.
What is the current population of the herd?
The current population is approximately 190 (not counting this year’s foals). The appropriate management level (AML) of the range (determined in 1992) is 85-105 horses. The 2009 HMAP sets the AML at 90-120. We will be removing enough horses to achieve the 120-head level. The AML is based upon the carrying capacity of the land while preserving multiple use relationships. Currently about 60% of the horses are mares. We want that percentage to be closer to 50%. We plan to remove about 20 males and 50 females from the range. How do you gather the horses? We will use a helicopter and wranglers on horseback to drive the horses to traps (corrals or pens). Helicopter drive trapping was also used in 1997, 2001, and 2003. Horses that are not trapped at Britton Springs will be transported there in horse trailers for sorting. What will happen to the horses once you gather them? We will try to gather all of the horses on the range and then release 120 of them back to the range. As we do so, we will even the gender ratio. Mares returned to the range which have previously foaled will be treated with a contraceptive vaccine. We will try to keep bands together when the horses are released. What happens to the horses that don’t go back to the range? These horses will be offered for adoption to qualified adopters on September 26 at the Britton Springs corrals. Before the adoption, the horses will be examined by veterinarians, freeze-branded, and vaccinated. Adoption-eligible horses will go through the oral competitive bid process; sale-eligible horses (over 10 years old) will go through the sale authority process (oral competitive bid for one round then first come-first serve). Any horses not adopted or sold will transported to the BLM’s Elm Creek, Nebraska, holding facility where they will be rested before being sent to another adoption event or to long-term holding, as appropriate.
What will happen to the horses once you gather them?
We will try to gather all of the horses on the range and then release 120 of them back to the range. As we do so, we will even the gender ratio. Mares returned to the range which have previously foaled will be treated with a contraceptive vaccine. We will try to keep bands together when the horses are released.
What happens to the horses that don’t go back to the range?
These horses will be offered for adoption to qualified adopters on September 26 at the Britton Springs corrals. Before the adoption, the horses will be examined by veterinarians, freeze-branded, and vaccinated. Adoption-eligible horses will go through the oral competitive bid process; sale-eligible horses (over 10 years old) will go through the sale authority process (oral competitive bid for one round then first come-first serve). Any horses not adopted or sold will transported to the BLM’s Elm Creek, Nebraska, holding facility where they will be rested before being sent to another adoption event or to long-term holding, as appropriate.
Will the removal affect the genetic viability of the herd?
Genetic testing/research done between 1991-2001 show that the “current levels of genetic diversity within the Pryor Mountain herd are relatively high for a wild horse population, are well above the mean for domestic breeds, and have been steady during the period of the studies.” These results occurred after several years of gathers on the range. Approximately 600 wild horses have been removed from the PHWHR since 1968.
Why don’t you just add more land to the range so it can support more horses?
Wild horses can only be managed on areas of public lands where they were known to exist in 1971, at the time of the passage of the Act.
Where did the Pryor horses come from?
The origin of the Pryor horses is not definitely known. A researcher recently concluded that the horses are descendents of New World “Spanish” breeds and related to European “Spanish” breeds. The horses carry no genetic markers that other horse breeds don’t carry.
————————–END—————-
Now when you really diasect this Q/A it reveals how preloaded each of the questions are..If you notice the answers are all bias and selected to suit the BLM’s needs and not the horses.Not one iota of concern for the future viabilty of this particular herd is reflected in the answers.
The last question and answer is the crux to the entire issue here.. Where do wild horses come from. Are they native or are they an exotic species? Well as far as my private research of 35 years has revealed..there is only a very small population of Spanish Horse decendents thay are spread out from the banks of Assateague Maryland to the foothills of Placita New Mexico. During my time in the field,the proof of where the wild horses of America come from still evades me to a small degree.However,its not the proof of where they orginated or the lack of..its how they evolved during their genetic axiom. Once domestic? perhaps!
Diversity and adaptation during the process of evolutionary blueprinting without impedence from humans until now, has given this particular species of equus an exclusive right among ALL wildlife within its ecosystem!
Even if the wild horse was feral at one time, it has genetically been transformed into one of natures most prolific species on the planet. And until ecologists and advocates alike are ready to step up and REALLY prove to Congress just how pertinent that this species is to our ecosystem,the wild horse will go down in history as the greatest lost heritage of all time due to ignorance and greed!
God Speed To Our Wild Horses
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Mustang Jack – I for one appreciate your writings, what you call “over posting” below – you’ve obviosly put a lot of research in and they make sense to me, as does R.T. (he brings tears to my eyes) and Ms Kathrens (what can I say?). I see further down that some ideas and direction seem to be forming, that there is some “undergournd team” already. Someone said they are filling the 501 papers, but then it all seems to vanish. What can we actually do? I’m really ready to WORK!
I did find an exisitng Coaltion, that maybe would allow an off-shoot – why re-invent a wheel if one already exists? Animal Law Coaltion. They have a section on Cloud and the whole wild horse issue, but don’t know anything else about them. And since I found 2 replies to my post I will put a draft list together anyway and get it on here by weeks end.
And regarding this whole feral, native, non-native, wild, introduced speces is all a smoke screen to keep us off point, but can’t seem to be avoided.
A nagging thought of mine – I have blogged a couple of times with no response:
How is it that humans bringing horses back to this continent any different that bees spreading pollen, birds carrying seeds, all these things we consider and accept so naturally as part of the way nature works?
When I was fortunate to be in Hawaii many years ago, and on a tour, the tour guide said everything in Hawaii was brought by the earliest people, and thereafter, from other places. It was prior to that nothing more than a baren volcano out of the sea.
I’ve had many say he was wrong, I don’t know, and I don’t care to debate it, but makes sense to me (I would suspect that birds would have caried some without the need of people, maybe even fallen trees, etc) – but it would put my nagging thought to rest.
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Im sorry for over posting but once I find a real forum where the horses truely matter I go a bit overboard.
In any case.. I would like to propose a conceptual idea.
The wild horse advocacy is vast and broken up into several fragmented groups.These groups of course are all trying to achieve a common goal.Which is to free the wild horses from the clutches of the BLM’s deadly scrutiny..
We advocates as a whole need to form an investigation team that is capable of keeping the BLM as honest as possible.
Ok so you are think thats not that easy..You’re right! It’s
not easy, but neither is wacthing the BLM slowly but surely eradicate an entire iconic species right before our eyes and all we can do is question their actions. Well questioning their actions aren’t enough.. Who watches the BLM? Anyone know? As far as I know noone watches the BLM but the BLM..Who counts the horses for the BLM? The BLM? WRONG! The (USGS) United States Geological Service counts the horses. They use four methods which they claim are accurate within 10% margin of error..
Mark Resight
Simultaneous Double-Count
Sightability Bias Correction Model
Distance Sampling
Think about the money and the man power that goes into the methods that I just listed.Not to mention the ludicrous claim of error.
There are other options that the BLM has not even explored that would cut cost to the tax payer and increase consensus count accuracy to within 99%.
There is a system that I have discovered in the last 3 years that is already in use for a very similar application. So far the BLM has made no mention of exploring this high tech tool. If the BLM would have listen to me when I contacted them when I stumbled upon this system they would know now that the herds can be counted over many hundred square kilometers. They would know that the results can also be studied for herd movement and the true cause of range degradation by wildlife.
So why does the BLM turn a deaf ear and blind eye to suggestions that would difinitively change the face of “wild horse preservation”? Because the BLM has no interest in doing what they have been appointed to do. And that is fo save and protect our heritage! That’s been established already.
Now it is up to you and I America to change that by pressuring the BLM with accountability through hard investigation of their records. Those records are supposed to be public information! Any information posted by the BLM regarding wild horses is not verifiable. They must be made to comply with all Federal Laws!
Some advocates need to get off their personal grandstands and join in as one force to MAKE the BLM comply with the ORIGINAL Free Roaming Wild Horse and Burro Act of 1971.
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I agree the BLM is a good for nothing group of people who care nothing about the hertiage of the American horses and Burroes it all comes down to the all mighty dollar of greed and blood money which I call upon there hands. To me I pray for them to go bankrupt for taking so many lives of our horses. We all need to unite now and stop the transport of our horses to Mexico and Canada and of all there evil deeds of our horses and Burros. If people would look at them as to where we are today and how we got here for with out them we would NOT have made it without them. How lowely and imorel these people are. Its time for our President and Congress to step it up for them, We will not stop screaming and yelling until we are hear for our Wild horses and mustangs and Burros.
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I understand Obama appointed Salazar who in turn appointed Bob Abbey.
Salazar’s , supposedly, dream is to eradicate all the wild horses, and HE and Abbey also want the uranium!
By Sunday the BLM will be rounding up Cloud, and a week old foal and the oldest horse in the herd.
Can NOTHING be done to help?
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Listen up people! The Pryor Mountain herd round up is a done deal now! This is where wild horse advocates have to move forward and let go what cannot be changed! The more that you dwell on Salazar’s and Judge Sullivans decision,the more you will see things like this happen. As of right now the BLM has plans to reduce the total wild horse population from their claim of 27,000 horses down to a mere 11,000 by 2015.. So when are we going to wake up? When its too late? The biggest reasons that we lost the Pryor herd is because we wasted time beating our own drums and grandstanding on message boards! Rather than thinking of ways to circumvent the BLM from removing more horses advocates just sat there and complained about it..
Once again I see that no one likes to read comments!If they did they would have read my last message about forming an investigation team that will act on behalf of Americas horses. Such a team would implore the BLM to stop omitting pertinent statistics from public record and allow us to review them in their entirety. A field team also should be dispatched to ranges where horses are disputably in question of causing problems with the ecosystem.
I personally am imploring wild horse and burro advocates to stop wasting time..If you are not capable of being part of an investigation or field team then you can act as a liaison by making phone calls and sending emails..
You better wake up now before 2015 is here and gone!
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I agree, Jack, the roundup is proceeding but there are still some options on the table. One would be an 11th hour call to pull the plug, which I am not holding my breath for, and the second is that we have until the 26th to fight to free the horses that they are and will be holding. That fight has some traction and we should head in that direction.
But I have my hand up in the air for the investigation team, you can count on that.
Keep getting after it.
R.T.
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Dear Mustang Jack,
I share your passion but everything that involves requesting, asking, pleading or begging BLM, DOI or USDA (horses on USFS land depend from USDA) is inexorably doomed to failure.
DOI, USDA and BLM are traditionally far-right wing entities since most of the time they have been run by people professing such deleterious ideology. This is a very entrenched problem with likely no possible solution:
Whenever a new government is elected they need to appoint people to run the different branches and gov. entities. The problem is that, no matter which party or candidate gets elected, power positions in BLM, DOI, etc… are always assigned to those “with experience in land and western issues” just like always Agriculture Committee power positions are assigned to those “with experience” or “in the know”, which happen to be right-winged clones of Burns and asorted puppets of agribusiness a la Goodlatte.
Unless there is a radical change and either the administration starts appointing people with enough scientifical knowlege but total and absolutely unrelated to the West, western politicians, agribusiness and its lobbyists (don’t forget that after all, lobbying is a business and precisely promoting these roundups and stirring ignorant people against the bills is quite a lucrative business), for example impartial experts in land management from Europe or other countries (England is a pionneer in the active use of wild horses for land conservation and fire prevention), we will always have the same problem. Why? Because wild horse conservation goes against the agenda of the far right and the agribusiness lobbysists and thus, no matter how many millions of Americans call or fax them, they will NOT listen. I know this is pretty sad but it’s the pure reality.
Therefore, we either adopt a stronger attack strategy (think of how Michael Moore successfully attacked the Bush Administration) or wait to see some real change which I’m afraid will not happen, at least not in our lifetimes.
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Daniel, R.T., Shelley and all:
There is little extra time right now for anything but e-mails and calls. Now – How do we start the push for this investigative team? I wrote another comment today about the UTube blogs- how these conversations have turned back on us, and UTube will not post my opposition. I feel lost and heartsickened, but will not stop – but how do we do this “united front?” I’m with you.
It seems we need a campaign based on a simple list of pros and cons – myths and truths (and unknowns). I keep hearing Ms Kathrens and others say “BLM just keeps saying the same things over and over an people believe them” – So lets do the same thing! From my background I would refer you to The Coalition for Home Fire Sprinklers and thier list of “Myths About Sprinklers”. This list began 20 years ago, all advocates know it by heart and can tell it in their sleep – this is what works – home fire sprinklers are now required by all national building codes, based on facts, not myths and lies that the opposition tried. Whether you like sprinklers or not, this works, and the truths always win out – if you just don’t give up and stay consistent with a united front.
Two things I stumbled upon as I was searching for anywhere to slip in word of the wild horse issues. Please forget that this is Ron Paul or Al Gore, and it is not my intent here to honor (nor dishonor) either of thes men or sway political anything for either of these – just listen to the messages:
Ron Paul – The American Power Elite, August 1988 media.abvovetopsecret.com
Rhythm of Al Gore
Last, lets study Best Friends Santuary – learn everything we can about how they began, how they grew – how they get people to rally at pet stores – how did they get their very popular TV series on the air. There must be other success like this. I think the way we get people to rally is to study how others have already done it. R.T., Shelly, Daniel and others, if you can afford to go visit them, dig into their origins, really dig to find out what made them successful. I for one can’t travel to Washington, but I could rally here at the same time, and I’m sure a few others could too -but we need a national banner and a “common voice” of issues – and an organized ADVANCE program. I would need to know months in advance. I missed the Cloud call in day as I was on vacation only for 5 days -if I had known a month or two at least I would have called.
Another possibility – try to join with other already exisitng forces – just saw on Link TV, Democracy Now (who I have been e-mailing every week to do a story on the horses)a speaker about some drilling operaiton on Public Lands that is polluting water and giving people living next to them cancer – ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE TIED TOGETHER. We need to contact people who are already doing these documentaries. I’m starting a list, with Michael Moore at the top, then all the others I can find on Netflix and Link TV, and I’m going to start blasting them with e-mails too – to support the ROAM Act – maybe these horses are our canaries in the coal mine??????
And, what about the wild fire part of this issue? Where are the fire unions that used to support the wild horses?
Barbara, not sure I understand why an “underground team”? I’ll join up with you when it is not underground and all supporters are publically listed. Why? I signed a petition without really understanding it. It said it was to save the wild horses. But afterwards the wording haunted me – “direct the BLM to follow the current law” – well the current law is the Burns Act!
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Hi Daniel – I think you may have touched on something big, I’ve scanned through here 3 or 4 times and I just picked up on it.
Michael Moore – why not?
I’m joining his fan club next week and starting another writing campaign to push for his support and investigation.
Who else? Al Gore, Leonardo Decaprio has done some of this, Juaguin Phoenix narrated “earthings” (wow couldn’t watch but 10 minute of that one!). That married couple – younger guy, older woman, Oh I’m old – cant’ remember their names – they are very politically active. Paul Scorvino is already on board a anti horse slaughter campaign. Bono – he already has a wild horse advocay – where is he during all this? Sheryl Crow, V. Mortneson (can’t spell his first name), who else….Oprah, Ellen of course, Bill O’Rielly (anyone else in this venue?)
Oh my gosh – so many fan clubs to join, but I’m going to do it and going to recommend this – these people are listened to by many many people – much more powerful than our elected officals!
What if hundreds of us bombarded them for a year? Unfortunate part is they usually charge a yearly fan club fee – but worth it? Again, these are the people with the REAL public ear!
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The issue with the Pryor horses is NOT finished. While the judge didn’t rule in favor of the horses on the TRO, there is still the pending case which would return the removed horses.
Obviously we need to focus, but not on a single action. We need to take on the BLM in court and win. We need to pass the ROAM Act. We need to prove what the BLM is doing is in violation of the current laws. So, yes we need an investigative and field team. That would help with the courts and the lobby efforts. We cannot forget those components.
I tried to put together groups to go to DC to lobby for the month of Sept. and not a single advocate would join me for a single day. I am now shooting for having advocates in DC for the month of Oct. and still not one reply. Any group, any individual for any day or two in October. My group, from my org, will be there for the week of Oct 18-23. Is anyone else ready to speak for the horses in Congress to get the bill passed?
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I agree with R.T. Don’t stop writing. It seems like no one is reading, but they are, or they will, when time allows. I’m just going back over these pages, don’t have time to hardly scan through, but everytime I do I pick up more and more.
To take time to read every comment as it comes up, would be a 24 hour job in and of itself. I spend my time first at TCF, then the UTube blogs, then sending my e-mails, then the blogs on PBS Cloud, sorry this one comes last, only because it is so time consuming and would otherwise keep me away from the actual work.
Keep posting – we need you!
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Mustang Jack, I’m for a team too and actually there has been one underground for some time. I can be a liason as I call, Email and fax all the time anyway. As for 27,000 wild horses , the BLM says there are 36,000 still free(37,000 on NBC Today news) and that 10,000 need to be removed. However according to Cindy MacDonald’s extensive research there are only about 13-16,0000 still left free and I think this is correct. Visit http://www.americanherds.blogspot.com/ For those not familiar with this excellent source of information I highly recommend it.
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Mustang Jack, count me in, I will do what it takes. I have an image that will be inside me forever… 71 horses posioned at a water hole with healthy cattle standing around them. Pushed under the carpet like all the other incidents. It’s time to remove the BLM.
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You are right Mustang Jack, let us know what can be done,
I see alot of people trying to help but not knowing what to do.
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Hello RT. Thank you for allowing me to post on your site. I must say it is a real honor and many thanks to Linda in NJ for referring me here.
I have just been informed by Linda that the newest update for wild horse round ups is the Custer National Forest herd.http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/article_7188858e-99b4-11de-93fd-001cc4c03286.html.
In my personal opinion the orginal 33,000 horses that Madeleine Pickens was going to adopt,unfortunately has long been dispatched.This is why the BLM is scrambling for horses. The adoption program is out of adoptable horses because the undesirable ones have been slaughtered. The BLM has not answered any calls from the television station requesting to see the facilities. The roads around BLM holding facilities have all been blocked off from public access. That in and of itself is against the law.Having said that..The wild horse has become a source of FREE MEAT for the US Government to export to foreign countries for profit and politics.
It’s pretty obvious by the way the horse round ups have escalted this year is indictive of an act of desperation to resupply it’s surplus of wild horse livestock
Yes I realize that there are conflicting reports by the BLM that reflect there are 36,000 free roaming horses to date. And then there are several reports that say there are 30,000 that refute the 27,000 that refute the true actual number.. From what I have physically observed over the last 5 years,the wild horse count is a lot lower than 25,000. I cannot back that up with factual data but my observations over the last 35 plus years of studying wild horses has given me the ability to see how each band has weakened.
Just how many wild horses are there left on our open ranges? We don’t know! And neither does the BLM!
The crux to the wild horse issue is, the BLM can submit any total number that they want and not have to answer to anyone but themselves.. This is why it is paramount to have a wild horse consensus review board comprised of a non government agency. The agency would be responsible for investigating any erroneous records The requirement for the BLM must be for it to submitt quintessential records to a public review board for additional analysis and future study for the betterment of the herd.
The BLM and associates have to be met on their own door step..However it has to be within legal parameters. No! there must NOT be any law breaking or harrassment or this project will never see the light of day..
Once a panel of wild horse advocates is formed we can then proceed to the next step and make it legitimate by filing for a tax ID number and licensing. We will need to send letters to our legislators for some kind of endorsements. If we have their support it will be easier to make the BLM comply.
Remember! The Senate does not want to be handed this mess and will be very apprehensive about passing HR 1018 if there is no one to pick up the pieces. If we pool together our resources and form a credible panel of experienced personnel that is competent enough to convince Congress that such a panel is needed to oversee the BLM then we can begin to save our horses from mismanagement.
Are we ready to get started? I didn’t say its going to be easy nor will it happen over night.. We just have to be patient but persistent.
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If you are looking for facts on the number actually in the wild you should read The Mustang and Burro Report on American Herds. Using BLM’s own numbers and methods of estimating it shows that the actual number of horses in the wild is closer to 13,600.
http://americanherdsxtras.blogspot.com/2008/07/americas-mustangs-burros-whats-left.html
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I am in-!
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I can get you photgraphs of what is in Fallon and palomino valley, you may not know about fallon..it is a private contract
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Wonderful idea.. I am ready…I’m going to find out about a tax ID # on Tuesday, we need a name any suggestions.
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A quick reply to Barbara..Anything that you can contribute by way of public notice via AHDF website..Please inform. We will need people like you on the panel. Hopefully we all can contribute something that will make this happen soon. You all have a safe Labor Day weekend..Tuesday I hope to see some more feedback..
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Look at this too ! It’s almost exactly 5 years old .
http://www.hsus.org/in_the_courts/legal_victories/pryor_wild_horse.html
Be sure to read the info at the link at the very bottom of this one. HSUS has helped the BLM’s destruction of our wild horses with their PZP agreement but , of course, the BLM didn’t keep it’s side of the bargain. I just happened to find this today–ironic , isn’t it !
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Barbara I bet alot of us didn’t know about this,thank you for finding it. That’s just what they do say one thing and do what they want anyway. I agree with you Daniel we can call, fax, write until we are blue in the face and they will not stop. Where money is concerned they could care less what the people think. Same with horse slaughter, bills get brought to Congress, someone with their hands out blocks it. It kills me to think this but our wild horses are steak for Europe too. That’s why we have to start an investigation and hit them with facts. Nobody watches them and if we want to stop this we have to. We are Americans, it is our land and our horses, we have every right to question what they are doing and we will.
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Oh Please! The success rate of immunocontraceptives such as PZP (Porcine Zona Pellucida) on wild horse fertile mares is about as vague as if there is life after death. It all depends on who you ask. As far as conclusive evidence that PZP truly works WITHOUT long term effects on offspring is yet to be determined. Just ask Neda Demayo the founder of Return to Freedom.I oppose everything she stands for. I personally do not agree with the use of immunocontraceptives on wild horses because, wild horses physiological make up is completely different than that of white tail deer and other ungulate species. If one wants to make the comparison to the results that PZP has on Zebra, then I will be more than happy to shoot down the results of those experiments as well. PZP is about as dangerous for wild horses as ticking time bomb!
The use of PZP causes birth defects and if overused it has caused mares to come into and out season causing disruptions in herd behavior and causing premature death over an extended period of use.
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I say, leave the wild mustang’s breeding and contraception up to God-let the wolves live and let nature take care of it’s own balance-what the heck is wrong with things these days?
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Mustang Jack!
couldn’t have said it any better! Thank you for all that you do!
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According to the drug’s own manufacturer it MAY cause cancer in the animals injected.
*”[0010]*Despite the efficacy achieved with Freund’s complete adjuvant, numerous concerns have been raised over its use in animals, and particularly in animals raised for human consumption. One primary concern has been the potential for false-positive TB skin tests in an animal which has been injected with FCA containing killed M. Tuberculosis (Tizard, 1977, An Introduction to Veterinary Immunology, CRC Press, Boca Raton, Fla.). Other concerns over the use of FCA have included fears that it may be carcinogenic and that it may cause intense cell-mediated immune responses which produce lesions at the site of injection. ”
http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20080233153
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RT and Mustang Jack,
Count me in on anything you need me to do. RT knows how to get in contact with me.
Sandy Elmore
Potomac, MT
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The word is out that the BLM is hiding more than originally thought. The BLM has to be made to reveal where the 33,000 horses are.. Think about it! 33,000 horses are alot of horses to be holding.. Even for the BLM.. There simply isnt enough makeshift pens to hold that many horses. I have seen all of the BLM’s facilities and not one can hold more than 500 head..And thats really stuffing them in head to tail. That being said..Do the math! That would require that the BLM would have to facilitate at least 33 of them.The BLM does not have that many holding areas. So Where are the horses? What was the real reason that Madeleine Pickens was refused? Did she find out the horses were gone? Where is she now? And why hasn’t she made a public appearence to rectify her lack of following up? She cannot be reached for comment! After all she did say she wasn’t going give up. Maybe she had too!
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These are disturbing days for the Wild Mustang and the events surrounding this–
Love the questions-
NOW WE WANT THE ANSWERS-
it is time to stand up for our National Treasure-
Don’t give up…keep fighting-keep calling your Reps and Senators-Keep Calling the White House-
Keep the Faith=-and do not forget to PRAY!~ These horses are God’s Gifts to us and our people!
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‘Something is rotten in the state of Denmark!’said Horatio in Hamlet. Our Denmark is our public rangelands -especially those under BLM jurisdiction, but including the US Forest Service, US Fish & Wildlife Service etc. The challenge for us is connecting the dots -as so much of the pertinent information ( # of mustangs on the range, # of mustangs in captivity & where) is unavailable to the public, including the media. Let us not forget too quickly that this was standard practice throughout our federal government for the past 8 years and that BLM was one of those agencies where they invited the special interests early on and asked them to make up a wish list.
It should surprise no-one that ranchers, especially corporate types, wanted more pastureland for cattle and sheep, and under Gale Norton they got it. The slumping domestic oil & gas industry wanted to ‘drill baby drill’
and what do you think the response would be from an administration where the top two CEOs were gas & oilmen ?
They got unprecedented access, particularly in the Rockies,
coincidentally right where the mustang range is, or was.
None of this should surprise any of us, but what does and should shock us all is that with BLM in particular, it is pretty much business as usual, eight months into the new ‘change’ administration. Granted, they inherited a mountain of misery & woe to redress from Bush & Cheney, and had to focus on preventing a global financial meltdown, but now that it looks like they may have succeeded it is time to hold them accountable for delivering the promised “Green Agenda”, which should include responsible stewardship of all of our natural resources, especially those most threatened and mismanaged like our mustangs & burros.
It is time to build on Wild Horse Annie’s legacy and mobilize overwhelming force of numbers of emails, faxxes, phone calls, tweets, letters to editors -on the radio, TV & Internet as well as in newspapers….as well as visible persistent protest at Interior Dept offices around the US, but especially in Washington DC.
Yes it is a daunting task, but we are up against a well-financed army of lobbyists for the special interests which the BLM caters to. To prevail on behalf of ‘the wild ones’ we’ll have to be smarter, savvier and more relentless than the BLM and challenge them continuously and lobbying aggressively for an independent wild Horse & Burro Management Board empowered & financed to implement key provisions of the Wild Horse & Burro Act of 1971 and especially the proposed ROAM Act.
Finally, it is imperative that the ROAM Act becomes law
a s a p -before it is too late to save many threatened herds !
Mad About Mustangs
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Dear Daniel Cordero Fernandez, Thank you for your supportive empathy..But I’m going to have to say WHOA to your commentary to a degree! Although you made some very valid points about the political end of the horse slaughter spectrum, you seemed to be trying to connect the two political arenas of domestic horse slaughter and the wild horse diemma..The BLM walks hand in hand with the USFGW, USFS,State Agricultural Departments and the US Geological Service.They all monitor and submit reports regarding wild horse populations. As you know,each agency sees the wild horse as a pest and a detriment to the ecosystem and repeatedly submit requests for the horses to be removed for the betterment of their repective ecosystem.
Bare in mind that each state that has wild horses has their own seperate ecological issues..i.e. The Virginia Range horses in Nevada have a set of issues that differ from the Placita horses New Mexico.The Custer National Forest in the Northern Region, of the Absaroka-Beartooth Wilderness near Red Lodge, Montana all the way to South Dakota have another set of issues. In essence I am saying that the political arena that you claim is the head of the proverbial serpent is actually the other end!
It seems that you are implying that this fight is futile. The only thing that I can get from your commentary is that you are suggesting that wild horse advocates are wasting our time trying to fight a system that is designed and blueprinted to eradicate wild horses. It’s not that cut and dry Sir! I’m not a defeatest Mr Fernandez and after looking over your website I am trying to determine if you really understand the complexity of the wild horse issue.
I personally have been chasing the BLM and wild horse data for 37 years and what you have mentioned is only scracthing the surface.
I know we have a common goal Mr.Fernandez and hopefully we will reach it before it is too late..
All I am asking you Mr.Fernandez is to get on the same page as the rest of us and try to resolve the problem instead of exacerbating it..
The reality of the political problem that you mentioned is a temporary problem.. It can be fixed easier than the horses REAL problem of not being recognized as an intricate part of the American rangelands. This has been their problem for the last 10,000 years! The mere men in suits and ties that you mention only take up space and waste our tax dollars..They are just puppets to a greater power.. GREED!
It’s more than just politics Mr.Fernandez.
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Mustang Jack, you stated you have been to holding facilites where there are only a few hundred wild horses. Did you mean places like Palomino Valley or have you been to the ranches where wild horses have been sent to like in OK and KS or both ? I’m sure many of the older horses have already been killed.
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http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/inside-nature/the-cloud-blog/video-ginger-and-cloud-featured-on-the-today-show/4424/
PBS BLOG
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The horses holding facilities that I have observed. I had worked at one of the ranches as a volunteer quite a few years ago to get an up,close and personal look at the workings of a BLM ranch. A Spy so to speak.. Something that I could record in my memoirs.
I did all of this on my own and much of my work was for research in hopes that someday that I could share my experienced with the world. I really learned alot. And most of it was hard to swallow.
Sometimes I would use a field scope and a few other tools of the trade to enhance my view from afar of other ranches to see what a typical day for wild horses was like without then knowing anyone was watching.
Have you ever see old photos of from WW2 of prisoners in concentration camps? That’s what it kind of reminded me of. Some of the horses were healthy,some were sub par and Some just stood there waiting for something to happen but not knowing what.. Others would fight,kick,bite and buck! It’s a very dismal life in comparison to where they came from..
The horses were pretty much the same at Seven mile herd management area in Nevada,the Pauls Valley OK facility, and the others located in Arizona, California , Colorado, Illinois, Kansas, Nebraska. It was the same ole same ole..
After awhile they seem to just give up! Their spirit is only challenged when the men with prods and poles come to gather some of them up out of the dusty overgrazed pens for a long gruling truck ride in an overcrowded stock trailer to a adoption outposts.
The numbers were always changing.. Sometimes there were a few hundred and sometimes there were a couple hundred..and then sometimes it looked like they abandoned the ranch.. I’d go back another time it and looked like it was reopned for business with a new surplus of livestock… It sickened me to the point that I had to walk away for a few years.. I still to this day walk away from it when I get too close..It sincerely makes me physically ill to the point that I that suffer from fatigue due to anguish and anxiety.. I hate to walk away but I have to,too only return with a revived sense of determination to defeat the eradication of such an iconic species.
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It just saddens me to have this happen to these horses.
This government is lying to us about everything, and I have a feeling that our grandchildrens, children will never see a wild horse.
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I am being bombarded by emails from wild horse advocate organizations that want to know more about the truth of whats happening with our wild horses.. I am elated the wild horse freedom movement is finally underway..Continue calling the White House and your legislators.Bombard them with emails and fax’s..Do not allow the BLM to hide behind the cloak of Americas economic state as they have been doing.. They have already hinted that the US Government has too much esle to worry about than to worry about a bunch of horses. Yes! America’s financial state and health care is more serious than other issues..But! WE as a PEOPLE will be just fine! We always find a way to recover from the abysmal clutches of recession.So lets not allow the wild horse dilemma to slip through the cracks. I am sure the BLM is using it as a distraction and in the meantime they selling horses right under our noses..
The horse meat industry is just like all the other food industries. The foreign market demands top quality premium horse meat and that is why horses of the Pryor Mountain range and other like it are being harvested. Yes harvested! That is exactly what they are doing because the foreign horses meat mongers do not want horses that have been held in captivity and fed on rations or poor quality hay and moldy grain.
I mean think about it America! That’s what this is about!
We have to turn up the heat on the BLM and file formal complaints against them for the destruction of public property,the inhumane treatment of animals,and most of all..We must begin criminal investigations involving the BLM’s illegal taking,trade,and commercialization of federally protected species.. That in and of itself is a crime punishable by law and warrants prison time that is up to the discretion of the federal courts.
Anyone know a team of good lawyers that will work with us pro bono or at least on a contigency basis?
I am sure that we will be hearing from someone from the BLM on this board very soon. Count on it!!
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the horsemeat industry is looking for mostly fat dark colored horses, those go to a holding facilty in Montana and then across the border to Canada, where they are slaughtered. The grays, paints, and other light colored horses, palominos, etc, typically go to Mexico, and what those poor unfortunate ones endure, I hate to even think about.
I know this because there is a pretty big killer buyer right here in the town I live in, and there are people that try to save the horses there. There is also a private facility ( the guy has a contract with BLM) and he takes their horses and i believe these horses are mustangs that go to slaughter, not sure, I can try to find out more. any other info will have to be off list.
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Yeah; try to find out more; esp. about “the guy with the contract and the BLM;; post publicly or privaely;
thnx wahpoose2003@sbcglobal.net
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Could Mustang Jack email me tsm693@aol.com
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This is proof that the BLM has run out of viable wild horses for adoption..Why would they need to round them up from Northern California as they are clearly stating in their ad below.Id they still have 33,000 horse in holding..Not one is fit for adoption??
Release Date: 09/03/09
Contacts: Jeff Fontana , 530-252-5332
News Release No. CA-N-09-82
BLM to Gather Excess Wild Horses for Adoption in Northeast California, Northwest Nevada
The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) will begin gathering excess wild horses from public lands in northeastern California and northwestern Nevada starting next week. The animals will be made available for adoption through BLM’s national Wild Horse and Burro adoption program.
Northern California BLM District Manager Nancy Haug said herds in these areas have exceeded the population levels that can be sustained on the range, along with wildlife and authorized livestock. These levels were determined through BLM’s land use plans and the environmental impacts analyzed through environmental assessments, both with public involvement.
Beginning Sept. 9, crews will focus on the New Ravendale Herd Management Area (HMA) about 50 miles north of Susanville. About 100 wild horses may be gathered to bring the herd within its appropriate management level (AML) of 15 to 25 animals. The AML is based on a number of factors, including water availability and plant productivity.
During the week of September 14, the gathering shifts to the Cedarville area, with a two-week focus on the Carter Reservoir and Coppersmith HMAs. At Carter Reservoir, along the California-Nevada border east of Cedarville, BLM plans to remove 125 horses to bring the herd population within its AML of 25 to 35 animals. In the Coppersmith HMA, straddling the California-Nevada border northwest of Ravendale, Calif., BLM estimates 86 horses must be removed to bring the herd population to its AML of 50 to 75 wild horses.
Haug explained that BLM gathers wild horses under provisions of the 1971 Wild, Free-roaming Horse and Burro Act. The law requires BLM to protect, manage, and control wild populations as part of a “thriving natural ecological balance on the range” and to remove some animals when herd populations grow too large.
Horses removed from the range will be brought to the BLM’s Litchfield Corrals east of Susanville and will be available for adoption. Animals not adoptable because of age or other reasons will be shipped to BLM long term holding pastures in the Midwest. Information on adopting a wild horse or burro from Litchfield can be obtained by calling (530) 254-6575. Information on wild horse and burro management, including herd population and adoption statistics, can be found at http://www.wildhorseandburro.blm.gov.
–BLM–
Northern California District 2950 Riverside Drive, Susanville, CA 96130
Last updated: 09-04-2009
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You have heard all about PZP.. The other drug that I was trying to remember which they are using on the Nevada range horses is of the peptide hormonal class..GnRH (Gonadotropin-releasing hormone) aka GonoCon is being used as an alternative to PZP to suppress breeding in wild horses. I don’t think Susan is aware of the use of GnRH on the Nevada herds..If she does she failed to mention it when the PZP topic was brought up on RT’s board.
What does it do? Well without getting into all of the technical jargon. GnRH is G protein which is released into the pituitary gland and it basically ties up the neurotransmitter which induces mating among mammals.
In essence it makes reproductive zombies out of perfectly healthy horses. And we all should know what happens when the natural process of reproduction is interrupted unnaturally by chemical destimulation.
The horse will become basically unneeded and alienated among its hierarchy and eventually cast out..We like to think that horses and other animals respond to such things like humans do and accept a family member no matter what.. However, as beautiful as nature can be,it can be even more cruel.. When wild horses are treated with PZP and GnRH they will be rendered useless to the rest of the herd! Once this rendering process takes hold, a paradoxical shift in herd behavior will occur.
The BLM is claiming that the wild horse herds double very 5 years. Well when I did the math over the last 35 years and calculated out of the approximate 173,443 horses were roaming free as of 1972 and subtracted todays BLM total of approximately 36,000.. That equals out to be that a total of 147,443 horses were rounded up.
Now if you take the 147,443 rounded up horses over the last 37 years and attempt to figure out how does the wild horse herds double every 5 years it does not add up.
Let’s do the math using the BLM’s 5 year double the population theory as being the common denominator…
So since 1972 there has been approximately 147,443 horse rounded up to date..That would mean in the last 37 years an approximate total of horses rounded up per year is roughly 3,876 horses. Subtract that from the original total 173,443 in 1972.. and that will leave a total of 26,000 horses to date. That leaves the BLM’s total 10,000 horse over.
Ok lets take further. The BLM says the wild horse population doubles over a five period..That essentially would mean that by 1977 the horses population would have exceeded 280,000..Now that means the yearly round ups would have had to double in order to bring the numbers down to where they are today.
Let’s keep doing the math. I want to stress this point.
Now with 280,000 horses roaming free in 1977..The total yearly harvest of wild horses would have had to exceeded over 7,000 per year if the BLM wanted to maintain there population management. Subtract 35,000 horse from 280,000 and that leaves 245,000 by 1982.
But wait!
Remember the horses double every five year claim?
Let’s see… 245,000 horses has now become 490,000 by 1987.. By 1989 the wild horse population would have had to the exceeded 500,000 mark.. And according to the BLM reports in 1989 there were only 41,000 horses roaming free with 71% of them in Nevada.
Now do the math from there and see if it ads up to 36,000 that the BLM claims is roaming free today. We know its a lot less but entertain the though anyhow.. And don’t forget to double the population over a 5 year period.
This is not rocket science people..The BLM has duped us into believing that these phantom numbers were real..And you know what? We fell for it..Now its time to get down and dirty! And I do mean NOW! We have to make the BLM account for the lies and manipulations.
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Don’t know how I have missed your site before – every complete and intricate and passionate – thank you. Haven’t had time to read everything yet with all the time spent to save the Pryors.
PETA has asked for us to send “respectful” calls and e-mails. Opps! Too late! I think I already got down and dirty – wont’ repeat what I said here.
What are we going to do, how are we going to get these lawsuites going? I don’t have much money, can’t travel to join marches in Washington, have been e-mailing and blogging my heart out. In my opinion, Obama should put together an equestrian unit from the National Guard who will listen to the real experts on wild horses, send them to displace BLM and all BLM contractors, take all, I mean ALL, the captive horses back to the ranges – thus end of budget crises! Then wait and see (with unwaivering work from us) when the ROAM Act passes and real science, not bought and paid for by energy, mining, cattle, hits the light of day and begin a reasonable managment program.
PZP – BAD!
Population growth – Yeh, when I did the numbers, I figured that stallions would have to give birth also – ha.
I’ll stay tuned to your web as well as Clouds.
And, where are the Fire Unions that used to support the horses for wild fire management? Well,I think they are all now corporate for profit private contractors making big bucks from big wildfires – or they have gone into the goat business. Intersting, since BLM redid their web pages, I can no longer find the part where they are introducing goats (these are farm animals mind you)to eat the underbrush and dead grass. But it was there, I know what I read on their Fire Page – and it is still on their books somewhere.
PS today when I went to some of the UTubes:
1. Several of the whole first pages are filled with people who have called BLM about the roundups, supposedly got the facts, and have now repeated those facts/lies. Talk is back to feral, native, non-native, invasive, starving horses – all the usual smoke screens. BLM must have all their family members hitting the blogs – we need to stay on top of that. But…
2. When I tried to post on these UTubes to tell people to go to thecloudfoundation.org my posts were not accepted.
HUM?
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OK, folks, now we’re getting somewhere. I emailed Madeleine Pickens asking where was she while the Pryor horses were being rounded up and had she actually seen the 30,00+ horses reportedly being held in BLM holding pens. I got a stock email back that she couldn’t personally respond. You are right, this all smells to high heaven. One individual is not going to get anything accomplished here. We need to form a coalition of passionate, dedicated, knowledgeable people in order to be heard at all. Animal Legal Defense Fund may be able to help on legal end or steer us to lawyers who will. Where is HSUS in all this? We need their $ but only if they will let the coalition lead. The horses just rounded up need to be tracked to their destinations to monitor their condition and see if any are sent to slaughter. What will it take to be able to document the number of horses supposedly being held by the BLM in holding facilities? Someone needs to do some research on Ken Salazar….such a sleaze has to have something hidden in the closet. I want to help in any way I can…..I am past state Cruelty Investigator for US Equine Rescue League of NC, attended a BLM wild horse/burro workshop few years ago and briefly conducted compliance checks on adopted horses/burros(had to give it up because BLM would not reimburse me for photos, postage, gas, etc.). In the early 90’s I headed up the campaign in Texas to ban horsetripping in Mexican rodeos or charreadas, after helping with California and New Mexico campaigns. I am a little long in the tooth now so somewhat limited in my ability to participate in anything too harrowing but I care so much for these and all horses. If anyone wishes to contact me for further conversation, my email is dkrowan02@yahoo.com
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Dear Deanna Rowan,
Madeleine Pickens saw the 33,000 horses? Okay then it’s confirmed? No I’m sorry Deanna I dont buy it..I am not being facetious or malicious in any way..But you say that you emailed Madeleine and you recieved a stock email that said she could not personally respond.. Then who responded that she saw them? How did this person or persons respond? Email? Well if the confirmation is an email from her or one of her PR people then we would like to see it please.
Madeleine Pickens must be cited to go on public record while under oath of a notary public that she did indeed see the 33k horses at BLM facilities they are, or were claimed to be held at. Someone simply saying that they saw them is not enough.. Not even coming from someone that claims to have spoke or communicated with her.
From this point Deanna, alot of people are not going to just settle for words regarding wild horses..Proof of all recorded data pertaining to wild horses on the ranges and in holding areas will have to be verified by a panel of specialists from an equine consensus board.
If the BLM scoffs at the idea of such an organization and refuses to put forth the records openly for auditing,then the people will file mulitiple suits through the federal court system.
The BLM must be made to comply with public law..
The BLM’s empty words will no longer be sufficient..
So if Madeleine Pickens did see the 33,000 horses,she has to go on record to say when and where..
Even if she did see them the BLM has to show they are still there.. So either way,as of now the horses do not exist until proven otherwise.
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Dear Mustang Jack:
Please forgive me for not being more explicit regarding Madeleine Picken’s response to my email questioning whether she had actually seen all the 30,000+ horses in BLM holding facilities. Here is the email I received in answer from her website:
“Thank you for taking the time to contact me. I wish that I could respond to each email personally because I am so touched by the many kind words and offers of help from so many wonderful people. My website will be updated constantly with Updates and Interviews. Sincerely, Madeleine Pickens.”
At the bottom of email is blurb: This is an automatic confirmation message. Please do not reply! September 5, 2009
Mustang Jack, I also do not believe there are over 30,00 horses in holding pens……horses over 10 years old and those unable to be adopted out, as well as any others the BLM chooses….they are most likely slaughtered. I’m sure one of their excuses for barricading the holding areas against public access is the past incidents of animal rights activists going in and releasing some of the horses into the streets. However, I don’t think they can refuse entrance to a group of credible, knowledgeable people for a verification. If so, what is the possibility of hiring a helicopter to hover over the holding pens at reasonable distance and photos taken and a fair estimate count be made? I would be willing to participate in this….I have observed wild horse adoptions since early 80’s, in Texas, Virginia, and my state of NC. I have also worked with adopted mustangs that were seized by US Equine Rescue League of NC for neglect. I am no neophyte in this issue but am limited to some extent by my age and loss of agility and reflexes. I have, as has everyone else, been calling the President, BLM, Dept. of Interior, and anyone else who might listen regarding this and other gathers. Make no mistake, Mustang Jack et al, I CARE about these horses and their future….don’t have much $ but would donate the price of one or two if needed to ensure they don’t go to slaughter. I will try to be more concise in my comments henceforth. OK?
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Deanna..I cant help sensing a bit if rhetoric in your sincerity..However,I do understand your derision. I am a bit disdainful regarding false proclamations that are made by people like Madeleine that feel that their word is enough just because of her social and financial status.
When I seemed like I was attacking you I was really attacking the content of your post. I apologize for my amped up attitude. I meant no facetiousness towards you.
I too have led a life that has been dedicated to the wild horses. I have chronologically documented and tracked the BLM’s wild horse program since 1977. Why? Just for my own personal memoirs. In hopes that someday that if they did become extinct from our rangelands I could honestly share their legacy from my perspective and theirs with the world. I never did it for monetary gain or for notoriety as so many do it for.
Everyone on here is wondering who I am and where did I all of a sudden come from. Well I have always been here since the dawn of the Internet. Remember Prodigy? the old way to access the world wide web? Right about then is when I popped online and have been here ever since watching for news and books on the mustang.
I just never felt it necessary to write about my experiences. God knows that there are enough wild horse authors out here publishing books and writing articles about them..My work is much more important to me than to exploit it like that. I figure that there are enough teachers out here teaching about the same thing over and over…I am a student seeking new knowledge from those whom are ever willing to teach it.. So I search and research the Internet for new information regarding the wild horse,but to my dismay its the same old same old. Even the most popular authors are rewriting books about the wild horse that have been written before so many times,however, with a new spin to them they try to make it like new information has been revealed.. And you know what? They all have the same ending. The only reason the horses come out as the losers in the whole thing is because we people who care sincerely about them in purest sense haven’t gotten the gumption yet to challenge and take on the serpent(The BLM) head on.And until that happens the authors will keep writing those books with redundant information and the BLM will keep on keeping on what they do best.To remove the wild horses from the fabric of our heritage.
I’d also like to clarify that I don’t have the finances either to single handedly take on the BLM, but with what I do have I would sacrifice it all including my freedom if I could get Congress to stop the round ups.
IF!
God Speed to the Horses
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Mustang Jack – may I paraphrase please? “If you keep on doing what you’ve always done you will keep on getting the same results” or something like that.
You are right on!
But please don’t get yourself thrown in the can – I’m sure we can all work together and eventually fall into something NEW that will work. That someting new might not be so new – BLM keeps on doing what they are doing. What is that? What do we need to do to have the same success?
Right now all I can do is e-mail and blog. Though, I am right now pretty heartbroken, I’m still e-mailing to Obama and Salazar and blogging on UTube like crazy.
I’m new to the wild horse movement, as I’ve just retired from another “movement” called employement – but I was so lucky to be able to work in a field that gave me a “worthy cause” to support.
Now, I see the wild horse saga as an “earth saga” (thanks much to John Brian, uswildhorses).
I had a wild horse as a child, then my family moved to the city, and well – life went another direction. When I “accidentally” stumbled onto The Cloud programs, right as I was contimplating what retirement would bring – well I have become consumed. If you saw my first blog on The Cloud pages you would not even recognize me from what I have learned since.
Best wishes to us all, to the horses, and to the world. God bless Ginger Kathrens.
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Dear Roxy, Sometimes I cant help feeling like I am being thrown into the can as you have suggested.. Sometimes its good to feel like that because its sobering. My main concern is that I dont allow myself to become to enthralled with visions of grandeur.
Your growth in knowledge since your first blog is commendable. Your determination to reach out by phoning the White House is enough if that is all you are able to do..
I would like to see many of the advocate groups for once put down their personal agendas and join forces with the rest of us.
What do I mean by their personal agandas?
I wont say who the specific groups are that I have spoke with, but 1 out of every 5 wild horse advocacies were on a different path than the rest of us.
i.e. They concede to the roundups and support the use of immunocontraceptives. Some refute birth control in wild horses and at the sametime support adoptions as a way of managing herds. As I said..Personal agendas.. We have to stop spitting on this forest fire and stop procrastinating.
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Dear Mustang Jack,
Yes, I do undertsand your perspective on personal agendas. And I agree with your tact on the issue. And have need for my own humility form time to time. Thus, sorry for this lengthy reply –
But, I am convinced that (perhaps through a Coaliton) through consensus, a simple common list could be developed, that could be supported by enough, and result in a common “banner” (final must be copyrighted). Maybe not exactly to everyones particular agenda, but enough so – and anyone that publishes the list and banner on their own pages or advertisments, can then go on to say whatever they want. And not everyone will sign on – thats ok too.
And on a personal observation – we can’t continue to rely on one woman, Ginger Kathrens, God bless her, she still has to have time to make a living. As you say we must stop just spitting on this fire and act like an organized, practiced group of fire fighters. What did Ms Kathrens say “Cloud finally has a family that actually acts like a family”?
I know this works, I joined one of the first Coalition for Home Fire Sprinklers over 25 years ago. Home fire sprinklers are now in all national building codes, I beleive to great extent because of “Myths About Sprinklers” list, simple, totally factual, never changed over that entire time, that all advocates could recite it in their sleep, and became acknowledged by all fire protection organizations. Took time, but paid off big in results. When I said not everyone will sign on – actually when we started the fire unions themselves balked at the whole idea, even scoffing us at their national conventions, now totally signed on. Lots of other opposition from builders, developers, construction trades, construction materials suppliers, etc. all profit motivated, and understandable, thats thier lively hood. Even some govenment groups and government individuals. Well, they provided the “myths”.
Ok – we just kept chanting and publishing our “truths” over and over. The truth will overcome.
This takes a lot of work and research – need to first find benchmarks (Humane Society, for just one example, and Best Friends “Puppies are not Products” campaign, MADD – so many) – those that are already successful – how did they do that? Select one or two and start to copy them. Then start collecting the “myths” and “truths”, then start boiling them into simple phrases, sending out for consensus, changing/editing, sending out again – usually a year or 2 deadline is needed though or this can go on forever – can be done in less than a year. Best with no more than 10 – 12 people – who then represent their own little groups that they report to and obtain opinions from.
Now – I had nothing to do with creating the list – greater minds than mine! And what is that phrase about “many minds”? – cant’ remember – providing evidence of my previous sentence.
Nice thing about a Coalition, it strips everyone from leader status – just a bunch of like minds – perhaps satisfying the fear of promoting visions of personal grandeur/agendas.
Over my last 25 years, I have been involved in many, many consensus programs, as I’m sure many other readers have. But I would have no idea how to go about starting this one -any others see any value to this? Like I said I don’t have money or ability to travel, but I’ve got plenty of time and a little experience.
Caution – a “Coalition” is “a special interest group”, can hire lobbiests, can hire speakers (like actors), must hire a law firm (you asked earlier if anyone new any – sorry not me),has marches, protests, has fund raisers, prints T-shirts, pumper stickers (ours was the same for 25 years -“Home Fire Sprinkers Save Lives and Property”), produces meeting minutes (how do you do that with an internet group?), maintains the original “Banner” (call it vision, mission, whatever) – some may find this distastful.
Well, I find the BLM distastful, and the roundups distastful, tearing apart these family bands distastful, slaugher distastful, etc., etc. more distastful than participating in a special interest group.
Anyone up for this? Anyone want to be startup sponsors? Knowing that you will never be recognized for that except in the original 501 documents? Knowing that you must strip yourself of personal glory? All users of a Coalition are sponsors on a level playing field – that is consensus – and it works!
Sorry for length – tried to edit – but was not successful, and sorry for spelling or grammer – I’ve become ruined without spell check.
If given the slightest encouragement I would produce an example, a draft list of “myths”, (not of my own making – but of what I have seen in blogs and web pages, cattle ranchers pages, etc. and just make up some possible “banners”), leave the “fact” portions blank for responses, publish it here, only with Mr. R.T Fitch’s ok (or would someone else volunteer this space?) – take the blast of heat that I’m sure that would start (I’m tough enough for that) and see where it can go, if anyone participates? Maybe Mr. Fitch would provide this a separate spot on this web page to get started?????
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http://www.thepetitionsite.com/15/save-the-wild-horses-of-montana-rsquos-pryor-mountains
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Roxy,Well said! Thank you and I look forward to working with you in any capacity..whether we get a “coalition” off the ground or not..we both have a common goal.. Amen that we are on the same side. 😉
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You have some wonderful idea’s Roxy thank you. We will get an investigation off the ground, the sooner the better. I am looking forward to doing something besides calling, writing, faxing and crying my eyes out.
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mustang 33,
So what do we do now? (comment string so far 19, 21, 50, 51, 53)
I’ll try to find all the posts that seem to be interested in a similar concept and list them along with a sample draft that I mentioned – by weeks end is my target.
I’ve been off this page for a while trying to keep up on TCF and writing e-mails. But now I have my cut and past just directed at the senate bill sub-committee, senators, Obama, Biden and Salazar – maybe something else is going on somewhere already? Please reply with anything.
We really only need a handlful to get started, and somewhere to live within a framework and if it then goes another better direction all the better – like I said maybe something is already started.
Remember the list idea is only a “common rally point”, can be kept very simple (can become bigger than I will want to continue), and a long term impact – not so easy to get done though. See my additional reply in number 19. I see so many great ideas on these pages, but I don’t know about how to do those or even join in – legal battles, investigations, or organizing rallies in Washington – I know how to do consensus, start things.
I’m like you though, I need something more than what we’re doing, though its working, and I’ll not stop, I need something more – I need to see a “common” something – what? – motto, I called it a banner – for all wild horses. If the ROAM bill does not pass, this will be going on again, and again.
And I need to be “by-partisan” of sorts. A Foundation has a vested interest, a Coalition does not, but is made up of Foundations, Associations, even “for profit” entities, and individuals, but is neutral in and of itself, the only charge I am intersted in is to maintain SIMPLE truthful commonality and continuity and repetition.
I’m so new to this issue, and know so little, I only want the horses left on the Public Lands in viable numbers, as “humanly” and “reasonably” managed as possible, no “sales”, no “abuse”, no “corrupton” (yes, well, I’m not that naive – but I’d go for the “ideal”) leave the old ones alone. Then anyone can spin off that – on their own in their own Association, Foundation, etc.
I would like to see Ms. Kathrens series go on – “Clouds great great great grandson ______” 8th episode airs Labor Day 2020!
And spin offs – New Mexico, Nevada, where-ever.
A Documentary at IMAX, a major motion picture – there are certainly all the ingredients – government corruption, tension, suspense, etc. WORLD WIDE EXPOSURE TO NEW GROUPS OF PEOPLE.
Opps, I’m as bad as Mustang Jack claims he is, going on, but he has better real stuff to say. And thanks to all getting the correspondcne and replies (or non-replies as the case may be) from agencies to us.
I also recommend, letters to the editor in your local newspapers, if your inclined to that. I was recently surprised to hear, and don’t know if it is true, that Iran Contra (1980’s in case you are too young to remember) broke in Playboy of all places, from some editorials that the reporter picked up on and connected some dots!
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After questioning where on earth the HSUS is, I received this email of Dave Pauli, HSUS on Sept. 8th:
I have been getting a few emails today with some of the same misconceptions.
The HSUS has been leading the charge on equine issues including horse slaughter and alternatives to the gather of wild horses and has been a long time critic of the BLM adoption pipeline and removal protocols. I have personally monitored and been humane observer on wild horse gathers around the country and have been vocal about the need for change.
And I have spent well over 100 days on the Pryor Mtns in the last 15 years trying to get the HMA size and horse numbers increased. So I share your pain with yesterdays decision.
Having said that there is good leadership and organizations representing the Pryor gather concerns. My office is involved in Bison issues, Wolf hunts in two states, Wolf shooting in alaska. Horse slaughterissues, 5 active puppymills/hoarders in my 13 states and 27 other active cases for September. This is not an excuse for inactivity on any of the other dozens of issues I have an opportunity to get involved with…but just a reality of resource allocation.
I realize you are apparently asking for National HSUS support …not just regional… and I understand how you could be confused how Keith might not be aware of a wild horse gather… but in our organization wild horse issues do not fall within the Equine Section but in the Wildlife Section and some overlap into our Innovations Section… so it is probable that Equine would not be in the internal communication loop on a MT/WY wild horse gather. But please know that The HSUS is engaged in BLM wild horse issues and that we are supportive of radical change to existing policies and protocols and support the congressional interest in trying to fix the system before any more horses are removed from HMA’s.
Dave Pauli , Western Regional Director and National Field Project Director
Humane Society of the United States
Western Region Animal Protection Team
490 N 31st Street, Suite 215
Billings MT 59101 (406) 255-7161 (f) 7162
Covering AK, AZ, CA, CO, HI, ID, MT, NV, NM, OR, UT, WA, WY and delegated National and International Field Projects:
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Dear Ms Courtney,
Thank God – finally an organization that sees the wild horse as wildlife.
If you have made some mistakes (I don’t know, I am new to this), that makes up for a lot!
Equine to me means “domestic, business, breeding, showing, racing, profits”.
Thank you HSUS.
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amazing how quick the HSUS jumped into the spotlight when the Vick scandal went down… yet here they remain silent once again, or has anyone heard ? Imagine the powers they would have to create a campaign for awareness and investigation… yet they hide once again on a national level not to be heard of unless they want your money. While not all at HSUS may be bad, it is a shame they fail to step up now.
Here another one:
thanks…specifically we have worked our regional grassroots network to put pressure to get the same changes everyone else is seeking.
We also are spending huge resources to prove to and train BLM field people that capture and remove programs are not sustainable and have demonstration sites with at least three herds that will show that roundups and adoptions are not best for herd dynamics nor individual bands.
I think our contribution will be the contribution that will eventually end the need for all but true emergency gathers…but this process works too slowly … but we are moving towards good results.
Other HSUS sections are also making contributions which I do not know details about but they are taking every opportunity to speak on behalf of wild horses.
dave
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it’s time Wayne headhoncho Pacelle is questioned on his input of “every opportunity to speak on behalf of wild horses” as Dave mentions above.
Why don’t you all ask Wayne where he’s hiding.
wpacelle@hsus.org
I have learned how corrupt HSUS is in my past campaigns.
Yet I think more people should address them.
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The Theft of an American Icon
In this land of wide open spaces, lush forests and mystic canyonlands… war has begun.
Where once peace and serenity were our inspiration to appreciate the sacred gifts who live in these lands… a battle of destruction has intruded, a merciless aircraft has caused a panic mode and havoc to set in, the peace is shattered, the strength of family bonds destroyed.
An operation has begun, under the false facade and guise of a propaganda called management. A merciless hunt that reflects the greed of a corrupt government is at work again. This calls any freedom-loving American to duty now. The very freedom of our legacy, the American Mustang, is stolen as I type this. The symbol of Freedom is hunted under aircraft, pushed off their homes, separated from their bands, forced down the mountain range for 12 miles to exhaustion…to the point of no return, where a Judas horse, symbolically called this for betrayal, is sent out by BLM to lead the confused, exhausted and terrified mustangs into their dead end corrals… the trap.
The sound of despair fills the air. The clouds of dust from panicked horses settles, yet the spirit does not. The mustangs desperately whinny for their band, their families, their security, their instinct to protect them from harm…. the aircraft is still hovering, the noisy darkness has overshadowed the victims of the hunt…. trapped by an agency who deceives not only the public with false statements, lies and misleading information… but the very ones they were ordered to protect many years ago. The wild mustangs.
The BLM is not the agency body to protect the West anymore. They have risen above their own law to destruct what is rightfully ours, what is rightfully the horses’…. our future generations might never see a wild horse again as the master plan of BLM is to wipe them out. The spirit of America is stolen, caged up and sold off at auction.
The viability of herds is seriously at risk and the BLM’s statements of their “management” plan untrue, full of lies hiding an ulterior motive. Despite all common sense and evidence presented, our government choses to ignore the public’s outcry and more pressure is needed NOW.
Wild mustangs… dispatched into unknown futures, ripped away from their homes and families, stolen off the range that is legally theirs… forced into corrals, getting marked with numbered collars, strained by devastation and fear…. degraded to objects in pens, to be adopted out as stolen property of the American public.
The prospect of losing freedom is unimaginable to Americans. Yet this dark movement conducted by an agency with a plan of destruction is guaranteed the future of the wild mustangs to be lost, and to become an exhibit in the wax museum for your grandchildren to see, an only reminder of what once was and should have been preserved.
America, Land of lost Freedom. We defend our freedom. At any cost. We must rise above tolerating such heinous acts inflicted by our very own government agency, BLM. We must fight the battle right here in our own backyard…. to protect the very ones whose lives, spirits, families, and existence has been stolen.
This is a call to anyone with a sense of duty and responsibility to preserve this American Icon. I am reaching out to your conscience to speak up and represent what America is supposed to be, for all: A Land of the Free, where the mustangs roam – let’s prevent the BLM from gathering more trophies for their morally depraved and sick plan – This is much deeper than a love affair for horses….. It is about defending Freedom.
With my own eyes I saw the theft of freedom, inflicted on innocents on the Pryor Range. The dead spirit, confused and hurt minds, the betrayed look in their eyes…the panicked cries… is something I will never forget.
Stories always end. May those be cut down that inflict this unforgiving harm to our legacy and heritage of Cloud’s herd and other wild horses doomed by BLM in this land.
Exploit me not. I was once a horse on the Pryor Mt. Range in Montana. This is my tale. What can be worse than freedom lost ?
You decide.
Monika Courtney,
Colorado
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Hello Monika..I believe you are right on and I couldnt have said it any better. This is why we have to preserve this icon. As the America we once knew is slipping away every day,so are the symbols of its existence. Our leaders have sold out our values to foreign policy and greed. The BLM and Ken Salazar have blatantly broke federal law and should be charged,convicted and sentenced to prison. Ken Salazar and Bob Abbey should be told to hand in thir resignations at the least.
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I need permission to use some of these factual & informational comments in a power point presentation in order to gain support of the Movement when I meet with folks on Friday, so I need permission in a hurry! 😀
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RIGHT now what the Cloud Foundation needs more than anything is MONEY! They are trying to buy Grumpy and Conquistador!
WE NEED to help them!
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I am talking to a high profile and very large bike club to see if they will help by doing a run to raise $ for American Freedom/Saving The Wild Mustang–
I have the blessing of The Cloud Foundation.
I have a meeting on Friday at 7pm. I am trying to put together a PowerPoint Presentation, however modest, to show to about 10 important folks within the motorcycle community concerning the Pryor Mountain Horses and saving all the wild horses, as well as return-
The Goal is to raise a lot of money for legal fees with this run–Anyone else wanna get on board with me and make this a NATIONAL Harley Ride for American Freedom-Saving The Wild Horses???
Get back to me ASAP–I would like to see this in every State!
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Sheri,if you need any of my postings for your power point presentation you are more than welcome to it.. May I ask what the presentation is about? and to whom is it be presented to? Just curious.
In addition ..
Where is Madeleine Pickens Now? Why hasnt she stepped up to purchase this herd? At least we know these horses really exist. Unlike the fabricated 33k that were supposed to be out there,somewhere.. I think that she should be implored to get back into the batters box and take one for the team!
Even if she has been called upon in the last few days,she doesnt seem to be moved by it..
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Ford Motor Company and BLM Work Together to Save Mustangs
by: Press Release
May 26 2005, Article # 5807
Ford Motor Company announced May 19 that it would provide aid to preserve thousands of wild mustangs that currently face an uncertain future. In addition, the company is offering a means for the public to help “Save the Mustangs”–working with the United States Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and Take Pride In America to establish a fund to maintain the legacy of these beloved animals through contributions that help ensure their long-term sustainability …
———————-END——————
Anyone feel like following up on these kind of the false promises by big companies? Write them and ask them where in hell are they..?? Anyone want to pick up this inquirey?
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I’m curious as to how and why the BLM makes such blanket statements that wild horses dont have natural predation..
What parts of the country is the BLM doing their research?
So there are no cougar in the Pryor Mountains huh?
I wonder if it has ever occurred to the BLM Eco-Nazis that maybe they should be studying the possibility of reestablishing mountain lion population in that region. It would surely have an effect on the wild horse population. I wonder how much research they put into that idea..It isn’t like the mountain lion is an invasive species..
Or could it be that one of the BLM’s biggest cohorts,the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Division has something to say about that? Or maybe the sheep ranchers might get a bit uptight at the mere mention of a cougar being in the region..What about wolves? Oh my! Curse me for saying that…Wolves being allowed to roam where they outnumbered people at one time? Why would they want to allow that..?
Well to be honest folks,the big the bad and the ugly US Fish and Wildlife doesn’t want the mountain lion anywhere near tha region if they can help it.
I cite the US Division of Fish and Wildlife because they cultivate and nurture the big game hunting
industry and despise wild horses..
So where am I going with this? I am making an attempt to emphasize how the BLM,U.S.Fish and Wildlife are hand in hand in removing wild horses from areas that do indeed have a presents of natural predation but they deter it every chance that they get. The reasons are pretty clear..
The BLM warrants their wild horse roundups by using overpopulation as their reason..The reason they give for the overpopulation of wild horses is because there is no natural predation..The USFGW monitors the natural predation and keeps it to a minimum, if any at all.By keeping the natural predation scarce,the elk,prong horn,deer,antelope can play all day..Well that is of course until the hunting season opens.
I have seen US wildlife officials chase off mountain lions with high powered rifles and what appeared to be mini grenades. They simply do not want predators in those regions if they can prevent it..
If the wild horse is to stand a chance against such hatred that it endures by humans that detest their very existence..the reintroduction of natural predation has got to be allowed to take its course without impendence.
Wild horse advocates need to prove to Congress that wild horses in certain regions can be left unmanaged if natural predation is allowed to enter the cirlce. Once that has been established we can focus on coming up with solutions for the other depleted herds.
The BLM has created this paradox for the wild horse so that they can appease their lobbyists with more land,minerals and leisure.
It’s about time the BLM is implored to manage the wild horse in a way that is conducive for it’s long term viability or they should relinquish their obligation as the management agency to an alternative one.
I haven’t been researching options to enhance and preserve the wild horse species for the last three and half decades just to be told that my ideas are not eccentric.
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Has anyone read the nonesense that is on Madeleine Pickens Website regarding Clouds herd and the other Pryor Mountain sub populations?
Here is it is right from the horses mouth..
FREEDOM FUND- please help
September 8, 2009 by thecloudfoundation
We are advocating for the immediate release of the older horses who are being removed both from the designated range as well as the Forest Service. However, we have not yet made substantial progress and until the courts rule we need to keep Conquistador, Shane, Bo and Trigger’s bands intact. These horses represent an entire sub-population of the Pryor herd, unique genetic lines that will be lost forever when they are removed. We want them to stay together and we have several options lined up but will need financial backing. It is our intention to keep these horses close to their mountain.
Please help us to make this possible. We need to fundraise for these bands and for our continued legal action to preserve this herd as well. We want to see their range expanded so that the Custer National Forest lands, where Pryor Horses have lived for at least 200 years, will be legally theirs forever.
Please help us preserve this herd through action and donations
————————
Are they kidding me? She wanted to adopt 33,000 horses just six months ago and now she cant adopt the 150 horses or so that have been taken from this roundup?
For a billionaires organization to ask for money in a time when the people are stuggling to pay bills when she can practically wipe out the state deficit of California with one payment is down right repulsive..
Madeliene need come down off her high horses..She needs to put up or shut up!
I apologize if I offend any of you that are supporters of Madeleine. I detest her motives and have no respect for someone that that has unterior motives..
The last thing we need is another rescue. God knows we have enough of them.
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Mrs. pickens did not write that, it is from the Cloud Foundation, she just put it on her site.
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Ok my error. I still find Mrs.Pickens contemptous because of her lack of involvment to date..
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I find all kinds of people contemptous for not helping. And I did write to Ford after reading your post on that.
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Great Susan! Let me know so I can record your efforts and it’s results.
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No one wants to pick up the ball and investigate the FORD Motor Company’s partnership with the BLM??
The BLM has convinced FORD that immunocontraceptives are essential in maintaining the wild horses population. The FORD Motor Company is not aware that PZP (Porcine Zona Pellucida) and alternative birth control such as GnRH (Gonadotropine Releasing Hormone) are not conducive options to wild horse future viability.
We need people to gather information showing the studies, that not only prove immunocontraceptives are not conducive to the viability of wild horses but how they are down right dangerous and deadly..
This board was screaming with comments for the passed few days and now its gone cold..
We need constant updates on whose doing what and when..if anything at all. Those that have offered their services out of good faith should keep us informed about the task they have taken on.
Please do not post your progress on the board. Use my the email Equitrak@aol.com to contact me..
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Ok so Im obsessive posting today. So what.. Its raining here and I’m inj a bad mood and insensed about the fate of wild horses that are rounded up after roundups.. The adoption aspect of it? A pure smoke screen in an attemp to hide the slaughter..
During my search for active horse slaughter houses in Canada and Mexico, I came across this list of slaughterhouses and killer/buyers. I thought I’d post them for future referrence..
Canada Slaughter Contacts:
Bouvry Export Calgary Ltd
Head Office
#312, 222-58th avenue S.W.
Calgary, Alberta
Canada T2H 2S3
Tel. (403)253-0717 Fax (403)259-3568
E-mail bouvryca@telusplanet.net
http://www.mhr-viandes.com/en/entr/entr/e75bouv.htm
“Breeding – Slaughtering – Meat Cuts
And also prepared meat : Bison and horse delicatessen.
These products are available worldwide for 25 years : Cnanada, United States, France, Japan, Italy, Belgium, Netherland, Finland, Deutschland,… ” – From Bouvry’s Website
—————————
Canadian Premium Meats Inc.
Location Address:
3401 – 53rd Ave.
Lacombe, AB T4L 2L6
Mailing Address:
RR 4, Red Deer, AB T4N 5E4
Ph: (403) 886-4361
Fax: (403) 782-7163
—————————
Kour Holdings Corporation
Also Doing Business As:
Medallion Meats Corporation
Location Address:
6478 Kamloops Vernon Hwy
Kamloops Div.
Yale District,BC V0E 3B0
Mailing Address: Box 69, Falkland BC V0E 1W0
Ph: (250) 375-2588
Fax: (250) 375-2578
——————————-
Les Viandes De La Petite-Nation Inc.
Also Doing Business As:
Les Cerfs De Boileau
Location Address:517, Range Ste-Julie Est
St-Andre-Avellin, QC J0V 1W0
Mailing Address:421, Rue St-Paul Estbureau 200
Montreal,QC H2Y 1H5
Ph:(819) 983-7941
Fax:(819) 983-4041
——————————-
Natural Valley Farms Inc.
Location Address:
NE SEC 04 TWP 19A
RGE 08 W2
Extensions ORM of
McLoad No. 185
Neudorf, SK
Mailing Address:P.O. Box 550
Wolseley, SK S0G 5H0
Ph:(306) 748-2477
Ph:(306) 698-2100
——————————
Viande Richelieu Inc.
Also Doing Business As:
Richelieu Meat Inc.
Location Address:
595 Rue Royalle, C.P. 101
Massueville, QC J0G 1K0
Ph: (450) 788-2667
Fax: (450) 788-2622
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THE SLAUGHTERHOUSE BELOW IS IN OPERATION NOW
THE HORSES DIE A BRUTAL DEATH HERE….
Casa Hernandez de Ciudad Juarez, S.A. de C.V.
Cesario Santos 6590, Fracc. La Cuesta
Juarez City CHI Mexico, 32650
Phone: 52 656-637-1909
Fax: 52 656-637-1906
Business Activity
SIC 5147 – Wholesales-Meats and Meat Products
NAICS 311612 – Meat Processed from Carcasses
—————————-
List of Buyer/Sellers for Horse Meat Exportation
Les Ray 13610 Cullen Blvd. Houston, TX 77047 – 713-738-7521
Musick 3200 N. Ohlmon, Mitchell, SD 57301
Antone Wald 47 Rhine Dr. Kennar, LA. 70065
P.J. Halter 404 John Dr. Bridge Port, TX 76426
Joe Simon P.O. Box 27, Webster, MN 55088
Heath Rousser P.O. Box? Sun Ray, TX 79086
M&M L/S 6754 Lariat Rd. Monte Vista, CO 81144
Berdell Olsen 8577 S. State, Spanish Fork, Utah 84660
Beaken L/S P.O. Box 806, Weimer, TX 78962
Pat Caka? 872 CR 348, Shiner, TX 77984
John Birdsong 2961 E. HWY 166, Carrolton, GA 30116
Jeff Smith 2995 Ave. V, Inman, KS 67546
Randy Smith 720 E. 56th St. Hutchinson, KS 67501
Ole Olsen 187 Ryndon Unit 8, Elbo, NV 89801
Jim Ryan 9421 Bandstoun RD. Elizabethtown, KY 42701
Baily Kemp 414 CR. 4681, Boyd, TX 76023
J. Paul Brown Box 178 Injacio, CO 81137
Terry Brooks Box 134, Jonesburg, MO 63351
Don Smith Box 745, Henrietta, OK 74437
Sugarcreek L/S Box 452) 102 Bucky ST. Sugarcreek, OH 44681
Leslie Downing 3663 N. Main, Cleburne, TX 76031
David Peck 1070 Round Rock, Saginaw, TX 76179
Darrell Beverly P.O. Box 90, Alberta, Canada 36575
Ron Sebastian Box 356, Saskatewan, Canada (not legible)
Bill Owens 440 W. HWY 6, Los Lunos, NM 87031
——————————-
Oh I also found an article that was writen back in 2007 just a year before the 30,000 horses were in holding pens in the United States.
I find it more than a coincidence that the amount of horses that were shipped in 2007 to Mexico matches the amount that were supposed to be still in holding in 2008..
Read it and you decide..
http://www.mysanantonio.com/Horse_slaughters_taking_place_on_the_border.html
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Natural Valley, Inc was closed by CFIA earlier this year and is no longer in operation and so does another one (I think it was Viande Richelieu).
As for Mexico, the Ciudad Juarez plant is for internal consumption only and is not EU approved.
There are only 3 plants in Mexico approved for export to th EU, all belonging to Beltex and a Beltex-Mexican joint venture:
– Empacadora De Carnes De Fresnillo S.A De CV @ Fresnillo, Zacatecas; owned by Multimeats NV (Beltex)
– Cárnicos de Jerez S.A. de C.V. @ Jerez, Zacatecas; owned by Multimeats NV (Beltex)
– Empacadora De Carnes Unidad Ganadera, S.A. De C.V. @ Aguascalientes (Beltex / Mexican company joint venture)
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thanks for the info the Natural Valley, Inc. (horse plant); was closed in Canada; good news; u wrote:
As for Mexico, the Ciudad Juarez plant is for internal consumption only and is not EU approved.
I do not know if this is true; but if ii is my comment is: ‘this does not excuse the fact some of these Horses are transported to Mexico from the US;
some of these Horses are “stolen Horses; meaning; they were grazing in their pastures and were stolen; through no fault of their own;
so whether the co. is importing ; exporting ‘ or staying within the nation…
ITS WRONG JUST SIMPLY WRONG to kill any companion animal;
we have cattle for that I thought…A.
Anna; Ovo lacto vegetarisn for 40 yrs.
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Another piece of the puzzle.
Anyone heard of the Salazar ranch? http://www.salazarbeef.com/
Ever hear of conflict of interest? Especially when pertaining to a government officials appointed job?
What are conflicts of interest?
Conflicts of interest occur when an officeholder puts his or her personal or financial interest ahead of the public interest. In the simplest terms, the official reaps a monetary or other reward from a decision made in his or her public capacity.
The most common conflicts in local government happen when officeholders face a vote on real property/land use issues that affect their own holdings. Other examples include voting to grant a benefit to a company in which the officeholder owns stock or even to a non-profit organization on whose board the officeholder may sit.
When a conflict of interest is possible, an officeholder is expected to abstain from the discussion and the vote.
What do conflicts of interest have to do with ethics?
Public service is always about protecting the common good, which may be defined as the common conditions that are important to the welfare of everyone-police, fire, parks, libraries, and other services. A public servant must always put the common good ahead of any personal, financial, or political benefit they might receive from a decision about such matters as where to situate a park or who should collect the garbage.
Also, conflicts of interest interfere with the basic ethical principle of fairness-treating everyone the same. A public official should not take unfair advantage of his or her position by voting on a matter that could benefit them at the expense of others.
Finally, conflicts of interest undermine trust. They make the public lose faith in the integrity of governmental decision-making processes.
What ethical dilemmas do conflicts of interest present?
Many times, government officials honestly believe that they are not being unduly influenced by their personal stake in an issue. They may feel, to the contrary, that their interest in the matter gives them special insight into the subject. A city councilmember who ran on a platform of revitalizing the downtown, for example, may feel entirely justified in supporting measures to improve the area, even if part of the benefit of such improvement might go to their own business. They might argue that they understand the problems of a downtown business because they own one. They might claim, further, that their constituents elected them specifically to represent this interest.
But conflict of interest laws prevent such partiality. First, it’s almost impossible for individuals to determine whether they are being fair when their self-interest is involved. Also, as the Institute for Local Self-Government puts it, “The law is aimed at the perception, as well as the reality, that a public officials personal interests may influence a decision.” Even the appearance of impropriety undermines the public’s faith that the process is fair.
Another common misconception about conflicts of interest is that officeholders are absolved of their responsibility merely by being transparent about their stake in the issue. It is not sufficient for government officials to make conflicts public. They must take themselves out of the decision-making process altogether.
This includes discussion and debate as well as actual voting. Abstention is only half the requirement. A public official is also expected to refrain from public pronouncements and private arm twisting on decisions in which he or she has an interest.
Has Ken Salazar breached the conflict of interest rule?
We the people of the United States have to implor Ken Salazars to resign from his respective position as the 50th Secretary of the U.S. Department of the Interior!
I for one motion for such action..
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Hi Mustang Jack,
WOW – thanks for taking the time to share your insights, research and knowledge.
I must debate one issue though – and maybe you answered it and I missed it –
Who is best to participate in or run a commision or to be appointed to run a part of government? It has to be someone more than just familiar with the issue/topic. Otherwise don’t we end up with what happened during Katrina – Someone appointed to head something becasue they were buddies with the pres, but didn’t know anything about the appointment.
So, conflict of interest, yes agree with you 100% for elected officials not to vote on something, but that if they are knowledgable about something they not only should be, but are responsible to be on those commisions adn committees, to put themselves on the block, in the line of fire, that is where the back and forth an debates of different opinions and knowledge and experience comes from, isn’t it? If not someone with this backgorund, who? How would one become as knowledgable as they would need to be in such a short time, considering how many different committees, and how many different parts of these committees there are.
And then the topic of voting – until riders CANNOT be slipped in, most congressional voters have no way to even know what they are voting for, especially, when it is in a budget or ppropriations bill, because if that budget doesn’t get signed everything comes to a halt. So this is a bigger issue of how government operates, and important for us all to understand.
But I don’t see it getting Salazar out of his role, who would replace him ideally? Where would you plunk that person from that would not have or have had in the past, some interest?
Maybe I’m not getting our point, or I swayed off? I understand your concerns but what are the solutions?
PS sorry didn’t check spelling or grammer – in catch up mode.
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Non-germane amendments (aka “riders”) are Senatorial priviledge. They are allowed on all bills except on appropriations, pursuant to Senate Standing Rule XVI (note that particular rules might be suspended on unanimous consent or upon passage of a motion ordering so). This privilege will never be eliminated, no matter how much times you ask for that. They won’t listen to you on this and will not tolerate any foreign interference on how they carry out their “business”.
As for the conflict of interest, everybody who chose to make a career in politics is pure and simply for his or her own personal gain and to favour his holdings or those of his “clientele” (akin it was done in Rome), so there is always a small component of conflict of interest. This is universal, name or party affiliation really doesn’t matter (though it has been demonstrated that rightwinged politicians -the more to the right and the more bigot, the more evident- have a penchant for engaging in conflicts of interests and for corruption, in general.
Daniel
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This is actually a reply to Daniel, but anyone can answer to me if I need corection.
It was my understanding that the Burns Act was a rider to an appropriations bill.
Following your response of Sept. 12, and if the Burns Act was a rider to an appropriations bill, that would then make the Burns Act “illigal”, null and void? Or, at least something that has a legitimate basis for protesting?
Or, its been awhile since I tried to understand the Burns Act – perhaps it was in context appropriation, as it had to do with “cost” of holding wild horses?
And, if I understood the “suspension of rules” would have to be unanimous consent, then everyone (or at least everyone present) would have voted, enven our sitting presindent and VP, or abstained (no vote) – but I would still possibly give a pass on that, as it is reported the Burns Act was an 11th slip in with not enough time to to read, let alone debate – which also seems to be a right wing tactic from my little bit of observation, at least during the previous 8 years.
“Thier” business – this is where naivity get us all in trouble, here we all thought they were carrying on “Our”, we the peoples business. But, then a corporation has been granted, sometime in this last century I think, and BIZARE to me, status of a “person”. So there you have it.
You sound very politically savy – I hope you will continue commenting, for those of us with passion, but perhaps not a broad enough knowledge as yet – or forgot it from school, in my case a long time ago, as we carried on with our lives ignorant to what was really going on.
“Everyone” in politics is to favour his/her “clientele” – yes, they have seemed to forget, at least in part, who that “clientele” is supposed to be – the people, and then those people would be thier constituants that voted them in. Thank God that corporations have not been given voting rights (yet) – oh wait, thats called lobbying and contributions! Though I don’t disagree with you, I think “everyone” is a term that is to strong for me – one comes to mind, and probably he is not even perfect, as neither am I, Jerry Brown. I’d rather believe some are as bad as it can get almost all the time, and some are as good as it can get almost of the time, most wobble and bobble back and forth in between these 2, and some are just ignorant puppets, or smart enough but get played, dupped, etc.
Anyway, Daniel, thanks for replying to me.
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Dear Roxy,
The Burns Amendment was indeed a non-germane amendment, a rider but the fact that it violated rule XVI doesn’t mean it is illegal. One thing does not imply the other. The only things that have legal status are those that are enacted, the triffles, intrigues, bribes and asorted bagatelles taking place before and because of the bill receives presidential assent is of no importance my friend.
Burns was the chair of the Appropriations Interior Subcommittee and taking advantage of this gate-keeper power position he added his amendment by hand (that is, he wrote it out with his pen) on the 2005 Consolidated Appropriations Bill Conference Committee Report, likely after it was passed though we don’t have proof and without knowledge of most of Congress. He did it so because Conference committee reports (conciliated version of a bill in dispute by both houses over its language -amendments-) cannot be amended, only voted yes or no, thus there was no way to strip it off by voting or by raising a point of order and since it was a critical, must-pass bill (the gov. needed money, specially for Irak) he knew everybody have no choice but to vote yes on it. Very smart strategy, which was obviously drafted by some of those sleek, Armani-suited highly-paid legislative aides agribusiness told him to hire.
This is obviously a disregard for democracy and the basis America was pressumedly built on but what did you expect from such a capitalist slime like Burns???
Note though that while it is true most of Congress didn’t know about his plans, there is word that Reid (who goes out there fooling people saying he supports Mustangs) was fully aware of it and was in fact in favor of it to appease welfare agribusiness, NV BLM (guess who was then director, yeah you got it, Bobby Boy Abbey), the hunter lobby (formerly known as USFWS) and the gun-totting ultra right wing lobby, so did the Bush Administration (BLM, USDA et all), probably even before the 2005 Omnibus bill ever reached the Senate.
As for the business issue… hehehe. It always has been “their” business, and no, their clientele is not the people, not even in part, it is those who pay for their campaigns, who promise them lobbyist, “counselor” or assorted useless, zero-labour, non-producing “jobs” or who simply bribe them, like they did with Burns. As sad as it is, this is an universal fact, regrettably even in other political systems. This is pure and simply how mankind is organized. There will be always rich and mighty and their labor consists solely in perpetuating themselves in power. Given that fact, the rest (corruption, etc…) comes next…
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Your post says what is happening to our Wild Horses in a nutshell; the BLM puts the interests of the Ranching; Miners and Gas Co,’s before the welfare of the wild Horses; the wildlife and the wishes of the american people; the us Judge said;
The Calico Mountain wild Horse Round up; is most likely:
ILLEGAL ! ! !
To the BLM:
Do you know what the word :”ILLEGAL” menas ? ! ?
The word “Illegal means: ‘ Agsint the Law and there are consequences for this !
How will the BLM feel if they are “Indicted for Inciting a horse stampede?;
endagnering Mares; foals; people and wildlife; includng Inury to Stallions;
the judge said MOST LIKLEY ILLEGAL ! ! ! The answer could not be any clearer !
So I hope the BLM is ready to pay monetary restitution to the horses captred illegally in terms of setting up permanent refuges and caering for them
as any good Bureau of Land Mangement woudl; stop BLM to protect your own selves
ps most lilkey extra fines for the BLM for hiring a convicted horse theif r !
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Corruption !!
For those of you who don’t yet see the “writing on the wall” at why the BLM is trying to rid all wildlife from our lands(it’ NOT just horses as u will see in the articles below- it’s all wildlife).Starting w/ all the executive order that president Bush signed in 2001 -to EXPEDITE ALL ENERGY -RELATED PROJECTS-land for our wildlife has really gone by the wayside.You will also read how BLM staffers raises and promotions were based on how fast they approved leases for such drilling /exploration projects.It goes on and on.REMEMBER THE BLM(ARE APPOINTED) WORKS FOR THE GOVERNMENT(WHO ARE ELECTED) WHO ARE SUPPOSED TO IN TURN WORK FOR US.BE SURE WHEN YOU CALL YOUR LEGISLATORS THAT YOU REMIND THEM OF THAT.
here is just a little “history” of the BLM’s “shiney record-this is just what they did in Utah(article date1999) as you can see “cleaning house” of the wilderness/wildlife is nothing new.
http://www.canyoncountryzephyr.com/oldzephyr/archives/suwa-april-may99.html
Federal Appeals Court Ruled the BLM violated numerous federal enviromental laws (what a surprise!) read below:
OIL AND GAS: Otero Mesa drilling plan goes back to drawing board (05/07/2009)
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April Reese, E&E Western reporter
One of the Bush administration’s most controversial energy proposals suffered a stinging rebuke last week as a federal appeals court ruled the Bureau of Land Management violated numerous federal environmental laws in its quest to open native grasslands on New Mexico’s Otero Mesa to oil and gas development.
The Denver-based 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals court said BLM violated both the National Environmental Policy Act and the Endangered Species Act in developing its drilling proposal, and remanded the plan pending completion of an environmental impact statement that accounts for the proposal’s effects on the region’s wildlife, its rare Chihuahuan grasslands and the aquifer beneath the mesa, which could become a water supply for thirsty communities.
“Development is a possible use, which BLM must weigh against other values, including conservation to protect environmental resources,” the three-judge panel said in its decision.
Hans Stuart, a spokesman for BLM’s New Mexico state office, said officials are reviewing the decision but declined further comment. Industry officials who had intervened in the case on BLM’s behalf said they may seek a full rehearing or appeal to the Supreme Court.
The Bureau of Land Management’s drilling plan for New Mexico’s Otero Mesa suffered a major setback last week when a federal appeals court ruled the Bush administration violated federal environmental law in crafting the plan. Photo courtesy of Earthjustice.
BLM officials had argued that the plan included sufficient restrictions — such as limiting the industrial footprint of well pads, roads, and pipelines to about 1,589 acres — and that the plan struck a good balance between energy development and resource protection.
But opponents, including numerous environmental groups and the state of New Mexico, said the effects of fragmentation across Otero Mesa would result in a much greater environmental impact. The mesa, which lies about an hour’s drive northeast of El Paso, Texas, is home to more than 1,000 native plant and animal species and the largest remaining remnant of Chihuahuan grasslands in the United States.
“They aren’t making landscapes like New Mexico’s Otero Mesa anymore, which is why this ruling protecting the area is so important,” said Jim Angell an attorney with Earthjustice, which represented eight environmental groups that challenged the plan.
“There are places where the country can go for its energy needs, but there are others, like Otero Mesa, that deserve our respect and protection,” Angell added.
Back to the drawing board
The plan, which amended BLM’s 2005 resource management plan to allow expanded oil and gas development, would have opened 1.4 million acres, or 97 percent of the mesa, to oil and gas drilling under standard lease terms. Roughly 484,100 acres would be subject to special precautions, while 40,500 acres would be developed only using directional drilling methods. The agency barred drilling from 35,790 acres of Chihuahuan desert grassland.
BLM estimated that the plan would allow for 141 exploratory wells, yielding an eventual 84 producing wells.
But last week’s ruling, which overturns a New Mexico district court opinion, effectively sends BLM back to the drawing board. At the same time, it stokes speculation among some groups that the Obama administration will scrap the Otero Mesa drilling proposal rather than pursue an expensive, time-consuming and controversial EIS (Land Letter, Jan. 15).
Over the past 80 years, 101 exploratory wells have been drilled on Otero Mesa, but all but two were abandoned. The remaining wells, drilled in the 1990s, showed potential for economically recoverable natural gas, prompting industry to seek more access to the mesa, though the extent of the gas field beneath the mesa remains unknown.
Last October, BLM issued a permit for a single new exploratory well on the mesa but imposed safeguards such as limiting the size of the well pad, triple-casing the well to protect groundwater, reclaiming a portion of the well site after exploration activities and constructing low-profile tanks (Land Letter, Oct. 2, 2008).
“We really are convinced we can protect the resources on the mesa,” Stuart, the BLM spokesman, said at the time.
Environmental groups, fearing the new exploratory drilling was a forerunner to large-scale oil and gas development, dug in their heels and hoped for a favorable ruling from the 10th Circuit, which took up the case after District Court Judge Bruce Black ruled in September 2006 that the drilling plan could go forward.
The groups got their wish last week.
“I think the court ruling underscores what has been at the heart of the Otero Mesa debate for the past 10 years,” said Nathan Newcomer, associate director for the New Mexico Wilderness Alliance, part of the Coalition for Otero Mesa. “BLM made drilling its number one priority, and now it’s time for the agency to do what’s right for this grassland.”
Future implications
Newcomer said he hoped the ruling could set a precedent for other BLM drilling decisions, prompting the agency to conduct more thorough environmental analyses across the West.
New Mexico state officials, who had filed a separate challenge to the drilling plan, primarily over concerns about contamination of the Salt Basin aquifer, also celebrated the appeals court’s decision.
Gov. Bill Richardson (D) called the ruling “a major boost in our fight to protect one of New Mexico’s most ecologically valuable and unique places.”
New Mexico Attorney General Gary King (D) called the decision “a huge victory for us,” adding it confirms the state’s view that the plan “did not properly take into consideration all the environmental impacts to the habitat and protection of groundwater in the area.”
If BLM opts to further pursue its drilling plan, King said the agency will have to provide more evidence for its characterization of potential impacts, and conduct additional environmental analysis when issuing leases.
James Coslin, chair of the Sierra County board of commissioners, one of several government boards adopting resolutions calling for greater protection of the mesa (Land Letter, June 12, 2008), said he was hopeful BLM would now come up with a more protective plan for the mesa.
“Maybe they should go back to the drawing board and re-evaluate what they’re trying to do,” he said.
Ronald Walter Opsahl, an attorney with the Mountain States Legal Foundation, which represented the Independent Petroleum Association of New Mexico as intervenors in the case, said the association may seek an en banc rehearing of the decision or appeal it to the Supreme Court.
“We think that there’s certainly some aspects in this opinion that are wrongly decided, and [we] are still evaluating the options,” he said.
Click here to review the 10th Circuit decision.
April Reese writes from Santa Fe, N.M.
Read Below how BLM was sued in Idaho for taking illegal mgmt actions on hundreds of thousands of acres of public land-jeopardizing wildlife habitat:
http://www.westernwatersheds.org/online-messenger/136
points I have outlined below for the link below that you will read:
Here’s what happened: On May 18, 2001, President Bush signed Executive Order 13212, “Actions to Expedite Energy-Related Projects,” one of the most far-ranging and destructive swipes of a pen that a president has inflicted on federally administered public lands. The order essentially commanded land managers to make energy extraction the primary use of federal land administered by the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), even though, by law, these lands are supposed to be managed for multiple uses
More than 60,000 wells currently are producing on public lands, and nearly 120,000 new wells are planned .About 26 million acres of federal land already are leased to energy companies in Montana, Colorado, Utah, Wyoming and New Mexico.
BLM staff involved in approving applications reportedly were evaluated for raises and promotions based on how rapidly they okayed permits.
Bush made J. Steven Griles, a coal-industry lobbyist, the second in command at the Department of the Interior, the agency responsible for regulating mining on public lands. Griles later was fined and sentenced to prison for obstructing a Senate investigation in the corruption case involving lobbyist Jack Abramoff. Another Bush appointee, Julie MacDonald, while serving as a deputy assistant secretary at the Interior Department, repeatedly overrode staff scientists’ recommendations to list certain plants and animals as threatened or endangered, ranging from white-tailed prairie dogs to various salmon species. When a federal investigation indicated that she also had broken federal rules by giving non-public government documents to oil industry and property-rights groups, she resigned from office
The result was a drilling juggernaut. According to a recent Wilderness Society analysis of federal data, BLM approved nearly 33,000 applications for drilling permits in the Rocky Mountain region between 2001 and 2007
Someday, the oil and gas will be gone. Here in the West, we’re beginning to wonder if our wildlands and wildlife will go with them
http://www.nwf.org/NationalWildlife/article.cfm?issueID=124&articleID=1640
Read here about all the round ups the BLM is doing look at NV-leaving only 22/42 out 440.
Look at Wyoming-removing 700 horses!
Look at Oregon- removing 320 horses!
It goes on and on and on
They sure want that land for something see link below:
http://www.americanherds.blogspot.com/
Here are some highlights of what is in the Audobon article link below.As you’ll read -Wyoming is a BIG TARGET for the US drilling boom:
Wyoming is ground zero for the Bush energy policy. Everything that is not high mountains in Wyoming is becoming a major gas play.”
Much of the energy development is occurring on Wyoming’s vast public land and is administered by the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), which oversees 41 million acres of federal holdings in the state. Part of the BLM’s responsibility is to serve as an ecological caretaker of public lands by maintaining the health of the plant and animal species that live there. But since 2000 the agency has approved more than 17,000 drilling permits in Wyoming. Until recently, BLM managers seemed little concerned with how the wildlife was faring under their watch.
The cumulative ecological impact is becoming harder to ignore in a place like Wyoming, where drilling on public lands continues at a feverish pace. In the ecologically rich upper Green River Valley basin, site of both the Jonah gas field and the longest pronghorn migration in the United States, the BLM recently approved the drilling of up to 3,100 more wells. And last July energy companies got the go-ahead from the BLM to sink hundreds of gas wells in the Jack Morrow Hills area of the Red Desert, a diverse, 622,000-acre habitat that supports one of the state’s last sage-grouse strongholds.
http://audubonmagazine.org/features0701/drilling.html
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To exacerbate the issue of the eradication of wild horses on public land by the BLM. Ken Salazar has a new partner in crime to head the Forest Service.
White House to Nominate Colorado’s Harris Sherman to Head Forest Service
September 12, 2009 — Ralph Maughan
Another friend of Salazar to be Undersecretary of Agriculture for Natural Resources and Environment to oversee Forest Service and the NRCS-
White House to Nominate Colorado’s Harris Sherman to Head Forest Service. By Courtney Lowery, New West.
There might be some confusion because the Forest Service got a new Chief Forester about a month ago. It works this way. The Forest Service is directly managed by the Chief of the Forest Service. The Service itself is a classic example, almost the model of a bureaucracy (I am using the word “bureaucracy” in a neutral fashion here). In turn, within the Dept. of Agriculture (not Interior), the Forest Service and the lesser known Natural Resources Conservation Service (NRCS), formerly named the Soil Conservation Service, is overseen by the Undersecretary of Agriculture for Natural Resources and Environment. Harris Sherman will be the new Undersecretary if confirmed. The power of this position relative to the Forest Service Chief has, in my opinion, grown in recent years. Under George W. Bush the Undersecretary was Mark Rey, a good friend of former Idaho Senator Larry Craig. Rey was greated disliked by conservation groups.
This is Obama’s second nomination to this office. His first was Homer Wilkes from Mississippi. Wilkes suddenly withdrew his name after being nominated.
This nomination would seem to really consolidate the power of the current Secretary of Interior over Obama’s public lands policy because the Forest Service is the only major public lands administrator not in the Dept. of Interior. Politics of the early 1900s put the then-newly created Forest Service in the Department of Agriculture which was regarded as more innovative and less corrupt than the Dept. of Interior.
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To bring this collusion cocktail back full circle I must tell you to add Sam D. Hamilton,the director of the US Fish Game and Wildlife as a missing ingredient to this lethal mix for wild horse existence.
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Holly, that would be great if you can get pictures of the PVC and Fallon . I was told recently that there are few horses there now.
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The Palomino Valley Center Website has pics on it. Im not sure what you are looking for specifically but I may be able to get you what you need.
The Fallon feedlot in Nevada has pics also. Again I am not sure what you are looking for but I can probably provide you with what you need.
http://www.lahontanvalleynews.com/article/20061222/News/112220031
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Ok, I’ve only had time to scan the last couple of days –
Thanks – I have been looking for the roundup schedules to add to my calendar. Congrats – we need a consolidated list of everyone involved, and in what separate but related organizations, and the historical context is invaluable in understanding Goliath (a thought – a Goliath family tree? – Something visual), however in addition to that I ask you to consider and bear with the length:
We cannot afford to be naive, we cannot afford to turn a blind eye to this Goliath just because it might make us uncomfortable, and I am going to ask you to be uncomfortable here for a few minutes at least, please bear with me – WE MUST BE DETERMINED BECAUSE WINNING A LITTLE BATTLE HERE AND THERE FOR HORSES IS NOT GOING TO WIN THE WAR.
First Google (I’m not a Ron Raul supporter and I’m not promoting his ticket, but we cannot afford to be naive): “Ron Paul – The American Power Elite, August 1988 interview”. Then Google “Moyers on Democracy”. Then Google (again not as a supporter, but because this is a powerful example of what I think we are all trying to promote – “REASON”. THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE CLIMATE): “Rhythm of Al Gore”. Read a book “The Tipping Point”.
Regarding talk of Obama and Bush, and BLM, etc – there is nothing new under the sun going on here. Corruption and collusion are as old as, well probably whatever “beginning you believe in”. What else is also just as old? People seeking the truth, fighting for reason, humanity, ending cruelty, freedom, etc. etc. It is, and always has been, a balancing act at best, a pendulum in the middle, a war at worse.
Right now, many believe, we are possibly in the middle of another world power take over (New World Order – started from what I can tell with Carter & Nixon, and has NOT BEEN MISSED by one single candidate or party as a whole since then, around the world too), or at least that is what the world power elite would like to think they are pulling off. They are as delusional as Napoleon and Hitler of course! But they can and will do a lot of harm if the other side, the “real” freedom and truth seeking side stays naive, stays drugged by TV shows and adds and political rhetoric and propaganda (that’s from all sides mind you – that donkey and elephant have cross bred and what is being born is NOT pretty).
Speaking of drugs – OMG, now science has found that all the medicines (unnecessary- mostly- for the taker, HUMAN AND ANIMAL, most necessary for the rich to get richer and more powerful) that have been taken and “eliminated” into the water system – wake up folks – there is NO WAY, repeat NO WAY, to filter that out! At least not a known way at this time. And if you say to me “but I don’t take drugs” go research your “Portfolios and retirement plans” – There is NOT one of us that is now, or has been, unknowingly, part of this, or any other, collusion and corruption, including me. WE probably contribute through these plans to the very organizations we are fighting here, by corporations allowed to own other corporations, on and on.
Now, seems like I ramble but only to get to a point, Bush and Obama both ran on “energy independence” (the mountain tops are not safe either – mining for ore and minerals!) – so regardless of which party one support or voted for, or ignored the whole process, we all are getting exactly what WE CAUSED to get – none of us can get out of this. Where did you, we, I think this energy was going to come from? So the president, and the recent past presidents have, and will in the future, fulfill that “campaign promise” until there is no “energy crises” and appoint those necessary to carry that out. So look in the mirror – WE are responsible for everyone that Obama, Bush W, Clinton, Bush 1, Reagan, etc, etc. has appointed to their posts. If we don’t like the appointees, add another calling, e-mailing campaign to our DIALY lives – tell Obama you’re unhappy, tell the next one, and the next. Write letters to editors; get to know local news people. I’m even going to start e-mailing to Clinton and Bush 1 … But most importantly is to understand the “crises” we are sucked into.
Fact is there is a large movement (they have been taped and aired and they are politically powerful) that want to privatize every inch of the world and they will use every corrupt means at their disposal to do so (Documentary “The Corporation”, and others).
So, yes to all of you, back to point, this is about energy independence – why, because WE are so bought into the “energy crises”, so manipulated into our lifestyles that have caused this “crises”, we are frankly at their mercy at this time. They don’t care about our public lands or anything natural about them, or democracy – all they see are mountains of money – equals POWER – and I’m not talking energy power here. Power over us based on OUR energy consumption – so who is to blame? Cattle gets blamed the most because they are the most visible and the most vocal – the energy people are not that vocal except on Capitol Hill, because the public has already bought into the “energy crises” and this energy consumptive lifestyle.
And the way out of this “energy crises”, this power over us? – solar; structure orientation; wind; live/work relationships – either work at home, work near home and walk or bike or use mass transit; anti conspicuous consumption – I worked for a city where homes are on average 10,000 to 20,000 square feet in size EACH; consumerism – fashion, trends, throw-away stuff, more, more, more (what spoiled brats we are!); change the light bulbs, turn off the lights, get off that “keep up with the Johns train”. Etc. If we don’t take on this revolution, we will become the reason for our own class structure and outcome.
This seems all off target, but part of a point. What needs to happen is ACTION. Support TCF and the others linked from there, and follow their guidance. This will not be over when ROAM passes either, if you do not want to completely lose these Public Lands; this is a challenge for the long term. Because there will always be another “Burns” lurking out there.
Who am I, why do I have a perspective? I suspect unlike at least 9 out of 10 of you, I am NOT a “horse person”. Long, long ago, in what seems like a far off land, as a child, I had one wild mustang and one rescued retired circus pony. Those early years were spent on a farm with my grandparents. My grandfather was from “the frontier”, an orphaned band of 8 brothers and one sister who raised themselves off the land and nature in the Oklahoma territory before the turn of the century. My grandfather and the youngest, the girl, were from the second wife – 1/2 Cherokee. I was instilled with and taught a connection to earth, the need for clean air and clean water, because as I was taught without those, there is no life.
Why do I bring this up? I have said this before, I have come to believe that the wild horse saga is a “whole earth saga” – it has really connected for me. Everything we need to know about how to survive, how to populate, how a society works, who the “enemy to our own survival” is, the very continuance of life on earth, is in the Cloud series (and looks like the thrust of this season on Nature) and what we are learning from these political lessons. The wild horse has come to connect a lot of issues for me, represents something bigger than itself – something “new”, something that connects everything – but need to find that ONE word here, I don’t know what. The Eagle – Freedom. Something NEW, BIGGER… The Wild Horse – ______? Or Mustang – ___________? Or – what?
Another perspective – we are spending a lot of time talking to ourselves, and not nearly enough time finding out what would motivate “non horse people”. They may not care about slaughter (just part of the food chain I’ve been told, after all, isn’t it? Cats, wolves, bears, whales, certainly are not humane in their killing), or what is livestock and what isn’t (India sees our consumption of beef as appalling as we see the consumption of horse, OMG there are parts of the world that eat dogs, and so I get told not to push my values on other parts of the world). But what do they care about? They do have a button – just what is it?
What we need to find out is what “buttons” to push, what WILL GET to as large and diverse audience as we can OUTSIDE of “horse people”! That is the part of this campaign that I will invest my time in – thanks to those that are more interested and talented in educating us all on the persons, parties, organizations, history, etc. of this Goliath, is all absolutely necessary knowledge in order to campaign.
Ok – done it again – Mustang Jack you are contagious! (Attempt at humor) With all due respect – I find your writing insightful, as are all comments on these pages.
I said I was going to try a draft “banner” this Friday, but some life things need attending to, it is started though.
What I am proposing is simple – I called it a Coalition. What is needed is something NEUTRAL (no vested interest), that TCF and others that do have vested interest, that celebrities, a wide variety of supporters can bond with. Simple context as, again a “banner” and list of myths and truths, something that can be printed in total on an 8 1/2 by 11 (front and back) – I repeat THIS WORKS! And I am experienced in this, and where I am week, I can solicit local help, am newly retired, so have time. And I will get that idea “published” for all to consider, somewhere soon. NEUTRAL AND SIMPLE – that will be the assignment. I will not give up.
I envision the Wild Horse movement to have a national day (forgive me if this already exists – I’m still learning), a ribbon to wear of course, but also, that can be adhered to cars – you’ve seen them – with a saying on it like “Coalition for Saving Americas Wild Horses = Saving Earth = Saving Ourselves” something like that (too many words though). If TCF would supply little lapel pins, I would buy some right now (actually in a month or 2 – still waiting for that retirement fund to come through) and wear mine everywhere. I’m still seeking input for an existing Coalition that this could tag onto; sorry I haven’t been to all the sights – if you have already offered that information, I will get back reading you all next week. And I’ll contact the Animal Legal Coalition -maybe that is a place to get this off the ground. And if someone has gotten ahead of me – GO!
And thank you again, R.T. Fitch for providing this format. Your writing is superb!
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I meant little lapel pins of Cloud –
this could be a little money raiser to TCF.
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Roxy,I must have missed the part where we are talking to ourselves..Will you please point it out.?
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Sure – I didn’t make that clear – we are talking to ourselves on horse advocy pages.
We need to be talking to people in the news, in magazines that are NOT horse related, trying to ge to other audiences, get more documentaries like Cloud, and the History Channel, and Discovery Channel (how do we get them to re-run theris and have some follow-up? I think by writing to them – at least that is the only power I have).
I think most important – celebrities – just wrote another reply – to another commenter – I’m going to join some celebrity fan clubs and start bombarding them – Who does the public actually listen to? Celebrities or elected officals? If we can get into People, US, what over magazines?
Ms. Kathrens has many radio spots, but they are all on horse interest radio programs – they need to be on National Public Radio (NPR) Science Friday and what else (I pretty much only listen to NPR so I don’t know others). Even Rush, though I suspect his comments would not be to our advantage, someone might turn on the Cloud show and get to the Cloud blog, and on they go. Actually we might get a lot of action from him if he thought he were furthering his hate campaign against Obama. I can almost hear his voice – “Obama the baby horse hater! and his appointed BLM horse haters! You people…”
Oprah and Ellen have been mentioned. Why not Donald Trumps show – a fund raising challenge for the “Apprentices”?
The political magazines – I don’t read them so can’t name them off – but WOW what impact that opportunity is.
And where did I see BLMgate? We need an insider, who is buckling under the pressure – like the tobacco guy in the Russel Crow movie? Where are a young Robert Redford and Dustin Hoffman when you need them? You can see I’m a movie fan.
Actually Robert Redford has 2 UTubes about the current BLM land grab in his area -Idaho, Utah? – where ever – it is the exact same story that we are trying to tell.
60 minutes, Jim Lerher News Hour, 20 20.
Jay Leno and David Letterman making jokes (problem is they might be controlled – have you read or listened on the internet yet – Moyers on Democracy?) Saturday Night Live. Whats that music one – MTV?
Letters to the editors – maybe no one reads the printed news anymore – but other reporters do – many story ideas, some really big ones (Iran Contra was one) come from questions that people ask in letters to the editor.
I’m going to use a lot of what you, R.T. and TCF have, turn them into questions, and start sending them in as letters to the editor.
Does that make sense?
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Oh ok..You mean collectively speaking..Yes I agree. I have been saying that also for a few years now. Thats exactly what we have been doing. Preaching to the choir gets us nowhere. Thats why we have to inundate the media with old and new information..Regarding the people that arent horse people..I have learned over the years that their is a very small chance to get them involved even after educating them about the situation. The biggest problem that I have come across is the advocate groups that are working close with the BLM. It is those groups that are compounding the problem. I dont want to list those names on the board because it wouldnt be fair to RT..
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HUM? Got it!
Well, what is related to wild horses that they might be intersted in?
This is of course a “web” of issues, not just the wild horse –
Throw me some bullet point ideas when you have time?
Without naming the other advocate groups, can you compile a list of one liners that they use that you know to be blatanelty false. Ask R.T. first? OR…
May I contact you at the other e-mail address you provided in another section – I think I copied it into my “contacts”?
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You may contact me at the Email address that I listed in a prior post on this thread..I understand that its a web of issues but the wild horse advocate groups are what I am most interested in.My knowledge goes alot deeper with them.
Email me when you can..
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WHAT ELSE IS THE BLM UP TO?
The BLM plans to continue another wild-horse roundup of between 320 and 496 horses in the North Lander Complex, which consists of four herd management areas in central Wyoming.
It’s a great place to start our barrage..
Contact Jeff Gearino at Casper Star-Tribune 307-875-5359 or at gearino@tribcsp.com. to voice your opinion.
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Would anyone please direct me to one or two books or documentaries on the history and current status of the wild horse in ALL the Americas and around the world? I just have a curiosity and would appreciate your recommendations, from others that want to save them.
Where and how are the wild horses today in South America, Central America, and Mexico (well, I get a hint that Mexico eats horse, so maybe they are all gone?), Canada.
I’ve seen the issues in Austrailia and New Zealand, much the same as here (except the horse didnt’ even originate there that I see any reference to).
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Roxy,
Try this if you havent already. I believe you may find what you are looking for.
http://www.mattswildhorses.com/
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Does anyone know about the USGS United States Geological Survey? I had mentioned them in a prior comment a few days ago.Anyway,I need someone to email or even call them to find out how often they take a wild horse consensus. Again the conflict of interest is always playing a role somehow where the wild horse is involved. The USGS? Come on now! Why does the BLM need a government agency to verify their counts? Why? because if a private or public agency did the consensus the BLM would be exposed of and their falsified reports of wild horse counts deemed invalid.
The entire system has got to be revamped and soon..
We have to be that public agency that will verify wild horse counts. As I said before..There is a system out here that is capable and it is right now being used for similar applications. We need to represent ourselves as the public agency that is going triple check the BLM’s numbers.
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I know a little, from my previous work, they map out earthquake prone areas – used by building codes and fire codes to try build in appropriate protection for different areas of the country.
They provide data for the fire service to map out potential wild fire senarios.
They produce the satelite maps we see on live maps –
Not sure about:
1. How they would count horses unless they think they can capture them frame by frame over a period of time from satelite images.
2. What would be the conflict of interest? USGS is just an information gathering organization about land formations – they just take pictures and produce maps.
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PS USGS is a federal government agency.
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PS again, USGS produced the Uranium map on this web page.
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The BLM To Be Investigated Now.?? What do you think?
As most of us know,in the past week and a half, the Cloud herd of the Pryor Mountains region has succumb to the scrutiny of the BLM..
After days of tortuous gathering of this magnificent herd, and not without casualties sustained by foals,the herd is far less viable than it was prior to this fiasco..The posturing by the BLM was a clear message to all wild horse advocates that the Department of the Interior is, and always will be in control of our wild horses.
It’s not only happening to this most popular herd but other herds such as the McCullough Peaks Herd Wy,Virginia Range Herd Nv.,and The Great Basin Herds Nv thru Ut.,Ca.,Id. and Wy. . According to the BLM they are planning a 1ooo horse herd culling round up in order to bring the herds into what they call AML (Appropriate Management Levels).
We must not allow for the BLM to submitt wild horse consensus reports that are clearly disputable.
Who checks the BLM’s accuracy with wild horse consensus?
The USGS (United States Geologiocal Science)?
Just a little more conflict there.. Don’t you think?
Some wild horse advocates are all ready to challenge the BLM in a federal court of law to prove to the public of the United States, without a shadow of doubt, that the wild horse are not at what they deem an inappropriate management level.
For a wild horse advocate investigation team to challenge the BLM to present proof that the 33,000 horses that are in long term holding facilities will be a task that even the BLM may find hard to explain away.
The BLM’s record to date is far from being considered spottless and untainted by corruption. They have not proven that their methods of consensus taking constitues any credibility whatsoever. The BLM works under the cloak darkness and reveals only what they want to reveal..
The total of wild horses roaming free versus the ones in captivity do not jive..
Think about that for a moment..
Do you really believe that the United States Government Dept.of the Interior(BLM) is going to pay for 33,000 horses to be fed and cared for,for an indefinite amount of time? Even if it is with our tax dollars??
Do you really believe that cattle ranchers are going to allow for horses to remain on their ranches while the cattle they own graze on the very land they just removed the horses from? Without seeking some kind of compensation?
Okay so Ill cut to the chase..
Where do you think the bulk of that compensation comes from? It hasnt been proven yet but if you add two plus two,I promise it wont add up to five.
The BLM is as sleazy and as dirty as any organization that reapes it’s profits from a source that is free for the taking.
If the BLM cannot prove that their methods of consensus taking has a real formula that is conducive for the species future viabilty of the species,all roundups or gathers should cease until such methods have been deemed accurate and conducive.
If the supposed 33,000 wild horses are not still in long term holding,the people of the United States should pursue federal crimninal charges against those who were,and are in direct violation of the Wild Horse Act of 1971.
If we dont want a rerun of what happened to the Clouds to happen to other bands.. We as a one voice better stand up now and demand the BLM verify what hell is happening to our horses as we sleep!
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Mustang Jack, I agree . There is going to be a rally in D.C. the 29th for the wild horses. Ginger’s site may have details. Also send in comments for the BLM Advisory Board meeting to be held the 28th.
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Im there! One way or another!!
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http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/byauthor/305715
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Buddies’ concert event to benefit wild horses
By Cathalena E. Burch
Arizona Daily Star
Tucson, Arizona | Published: 08.21.2009
advertisementThey were born on the same July day in 1945, became fast friends nearly 20 years later and have managed to follow each other, sometimes unwittingly, from town to town, career milestone to career milestone.
Now in their early 60s, singer-songwriter John Coinman and screenwriter/novelist Michael Blake find themselves living across town from each other in the Tucson area.
Their common denominator? Music.
On Saturday, the pair will use that bond to spread the gospel of another of their shared loves: wild horses.
Blake and Coinman will present a multimedia concert event to raise awareness and money for endangered wild horses, which Blake says are on the verge of becoming extinct.
“There are less than 15,000 wild horses running free, and the government is determined to get rid of them,” the celebrated author and screenwriter of “Dances With Wolves” said as Coinman, sitting next to him, nodded in agreement. “It’s about the balance of life in the West. . . . Capitalism has removed us deeply from the rest of life on Earth. If we can maintain wild horses in the West, that’s one more key in the ecological (chain).”
Blake’s tone becomes excited and impassioned as he speaks of the wild horses that have taken up residence in his heart and at his sprawling ranch in Vail, at the foot of the Rincon Mountains. One in particular, a lead stallion named “Twelve” that he bought from the Bureau of Land Management in Reno in 1990, is the subject of his latest book, “Twelve: The King,” which came out this summer. Twelve died in 2005; he was nearly 40 years old.
“When I saw him, I realized life was much bigger than what I was living,” said the father of three, who still has a pair of wild horses roaming free on about eight fenced acres on his land and who has “1202” tattooed on his forearm. It’s the same number that was branded into Twelve’s rump.
Blake will talk about the book — which reads like a cross between a memoir and a love poem — during Saturday’s event. He and Coinman also will be joined by longtime mutual friend John Densmore, former drummer for The Doors.
The concert will be the first full-band Tucson show in four years for Coinman, who these days has been touring the country with actor/country singer Kevin Costner. Coinman is the chief songwriter and band leader for Costner’s Modern West band, which includes Tucson players who are part of Coinman’s band.
The music for Saturday’s concert will come from Coinman’s extensive catalog, including a couple songs that Costner included on the band’s nearly year-old debut country album. Coinman, who has been writing songs since he was a kid growing up in New Mexico, likes to call his music “desert noir.” There are strong nods to twangy country, liberally spiked with Western sensibilities and the muted energy of desert rock. There’s a commitment in his lyrics to the Western way of life — where the best joys come in the simplest moments.
Coinman was a young and struggling musician when he met Blake in New Mexico. Blake was studying journalism and was enamored of music.
A few years after college, the pair hitchhiked together from New Mexico to California, intent on pursuing their artistic endeavors.
“We both, from our mid-20s on, became really dedicated artists,” Coinman said, explaining how their friendship has endured the years, the ups and downs and the distances they’ve traveled to get to this point. “When you’re younger, someone always caves in. That never happened to us. We became each other’s advocates. Michael always listened to all of my songs. Everything Michael wrote, I read.”
Their resolve has had sweet rewards:
• Coinman, who has lived in Tucson since the mid-1990s, has recorded five albums, including two on Europe’s leading Americana label, Corazong, and served as music supervisor for Blake’s Academy Award-winning film, “Dances With Wolves.”
• Blake, who moved to Tucson 17 years ago, brought home nearly every major film award in 1990 for “Dances,” including the Oscar, Golden Globe and British Academy Award. He has written several novels and has recorded two CDs.
This is the pair’s second Tucson appearance together since they shared the Fox Theatre stage last fall to celebrate Blake’s new documentary, “The American West: On the Road With Michael Blake.”
“This gives us an opportunity to work together again,” Coinman said.
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For some reason Star Wars Revenge of the Sith comes to mind. The evil villain doesn’t march in wearing black. He pretends to be a kind leader doing all for the good of the people (and in this case, the horses)
Only its happening here and now. On earth, in the USA, not a movie we can just turn off if it gets scary. No doubt this is what is behind the murder of mustangs. People who count on people not looking too close behind the politics, making connections and just being to busy to yell stop! I’m sure there are enough of us. But are we loud enough, powerful enough to stop them? Can we do it before its too late?
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http://jgrtyjp.com/
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I just arrived at this web page today. I’ve recently been enlightened about the wild horse devastation going on. Since then, it’s been reading and research trying to get an understanding of the who, what, when, where. The why doesn’t really matter.
The calls, letters and emails are good and necessary but will not change any policies or actions at the BLM or other federal agencies. To stop what they are doing is going to take legal action. That comes in two forms. Judicial and Legislative.
No one action can encompass what needs to be done.
The way to get it done is to “Divide and Conquer”. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.
Gather people or groups and assign them each to a specific area.
1. Field Work – Observing and recording actual gathers; the holding facilities; the adoption and auctions, etc
2. Research – compile data on past and future gathers, grazing permits, energy leases, drought conditions, predator control, etc. Compare what was said versus what was done to show Bull,Lies,Misinformation, inconsistencies, etc.
3. Front Line Forces – present data with compelling arguments that past actions (which indicate future behavior) have been dishonest and illegal to pertinent Congress-persons and proper courts.
The ROAM act might be o.k., but I have my suspicions. It might be better and probably easier to work for repeal of the Burns Amendment.
I am wondering “if” a good place to start would be the wild horses and burros currently in holding facilities. If 33,000 animals cannot be accounted for, I imagine the BLM would have some explaining to do. Keep in mind that each animal has a numbered tattoo. They “the court noted, it was well settled that wild animals are decisively not owned by the federal government, but rather are a form of common property whose control and regulation by the government is to be exercised as a trust for the benefit of the people” from 799 F.2d 1423 (10 Cir. 1986).
It’s a start, I’m still gathering info and working thru ideas. Count me in when putting together any group that is going to take the next step.
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EM;
Welcome aboard, glad to have you here. Some very well thought out advice, in fact, I will be forwarding this to a few of my associates.
We attempt to update this blog on a daily basis with up to the minute and timely information so feel free to stop by the front page at htt://rtfitch.wordpress.com and then click on the headline or link that you find to your taste.
Great job at jumping into the conversation on this most pressing issue.
R.T.
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THE OBAMAH ADMINSTRATION HAS INCREASED THE NUMBER OF SEA TURTLES ALLOWED TO BE HARVESTED BY 60%
Whereas previosuly if a fishing vessel had authority to capture 100 Sea turles yestersay
under the new administration; the fishing vessel can legally capture 300 Sea TurTles !
What is obamah trying to do? desimate the lands and then the oceans too? WRONG ! !!
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The BLM is leasing our Lands to Gas and Oil entriprises; is this legal ? for example in his statmenet on the Calcio mountain round up the Us Judge said;
‘Most likely the (Calcio roundup) is Illegal ! ! ! so why didn’t he stop this ?
Either the wild horse round ups are Illegal or they are not!; if the Horse Roundups are Illegal this measn the BLM is in violation of the US Law and will be stopped !
Utter nonsense the lands cannot hold the Horses; white man speaketh with forked tongue when he says: hundreds of thousands of acres of land plains and moutnains and sage cannot hold a few bandfulls of wild Mustnags; my case is:
IS IT LEGAL FOR THE BLM TO LEASE OUR PUBLIC LANDS RO PRIVATE ENERGY COMPNAIES ?
OR TO CATTLE RANCHES FOR THAT MATTER ?
I thought it was Illegal for the US gov. to Invest in any way in monetary profits of private industry;
STOP THE LEASING OF THE Lands; this is illegal; those are not private lands; those are public lands
and our gov. does not have the right to lease public lands to private companies !
esp. considering we the american taxpayer fund the parks and BKM range lands…Anna
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This is awesome work!! Thank you!!! We have been struggling with the destruction of the pinyon forests in Nevada for 14 years. I had no idea that people connected to the wild horse issue had such a strong voice or such great passion. I am so glad to see people in arms about the BLM land practices in NV. I saw my first wild horse there this year and they are beautiful. I thought wild horses would be thin, but the horses thrive in Nevada. Someone please send me a banner or button we can post on http://www.pinenut.com Penny Frazier Goods From The Woods
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Reblogged this on Straight from the Horse's Heart and commented:
Jerry Finch and I were onto the Uranium Collusion back in 2009, and no one did anything…now the truth is hitting mainstream media 8 years after we reported it. What a travesty.
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Reblogged this on hocuspocus13 and commented:
jinxx♦xoxo
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What do we do to stop this and so much other issues that we have with not only, BLM and department of interior. Here again is governmental misuse what’s not theirs.
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