(In My most Pissed Off Opinion) by R.T. Fitch ~ Author/Director HfH Advisory Council
Sue Cattoor Loves that Rogue’s Limelight
Sue Cattor playing to the Cloud Foundation's camera of Ginger Kathrens and Makendra Silverman at the destruction of the Pryor Mt. Herd in 2009 ~ Photo by R.T. Fitch
On January 24th our good friend and college Robert Winkler of The Desert Independent published a guest editorial written by the wife of one of the Bureau of Land Management’s chief helicopter wild horse stampede contractors, Sue Cattoor. I read it, I gagged, I moved on and did not comment. There was a moment that I considered posting it, here, and decided against giving this self-ordained queen of wild horse suffering any more publicity to feed her maniacal ego. But after days of eating at my soul; I just can’t let it go as I sincerely owe it to the tens of thousands of wild horses whose lives have been destroyed, both figuratively and literally, to respond to this trashing of the truth and blatant attempt to further mislead and twist the opinion of the American public.
Now a word of warning about Sue Cattoor, the woman is out of touch with the laws of the land and is seriously attempting to rewrite the First Amendment and quell free speech in the press within our borders. Last year the Cattoors had their attorney send ugly and shabbily constructed (in my pissed off opinion) threat letters to rescues, foundations, publications and bloggers who publicly questioned the high flying duo for their techniques, tactics and methods of mismanaging the costly and deadly Calico Complex debacle. (You can view our letter by clicking (HERE)) These letters laid out demands for retractions, apologies, deadlines and timelines with threats of what would happen if we did not comply. Some caved, some did not, others engaged their attorneys who basically told the constitution assailing Cattoor attorneys to stick it. What ole Sue fails to realize is that she has gone above and beyond the norm to make herself a public “personality” and once that was established we are all welcome to have our own opinions of this very public, controversial, outspoken media Black Hole. As a writer and blogger I most certainly have my opinion and that is exactly what is expressed within this article. (Actually, several of us feel that a suit initiated by the Cattors would be a really fun ride for all of us because the discovery of their books and background would be a riot, wouldn’t it?…enough fodder there for the next several decades worth of Op-Eds)
The title of this “look at me” rant is “Helicopter Roundups are the Most Humane Way to Gather Wild Horses”. That one sentence says a lot, in fact, its double talk. The BLM and Cattoors refer to their helicopter stampedes as “gathers” and they have cringed when more astute individuals use the term roundup. Now we have ole Sue using both terms in one sentence, pretty slick. When we use the term “gather” we are usually using it in regards to flowers, eggs, leaves or maybe something like, “Come children, gather around and we will tell you a fairy tale before you go to bed.” Images of young girls dancing through meadows of tall lush grass with baskets of flowers on their arms comes to mind when we think of gather, NOT the bloody images of stampeded horses running for their lives before a roaring, mechanized bird of prey. The images just don’t mix.
And then there is the intent of the headline; ”most humane way to gather wild horses”. Like there are other ways that are worse or the entire process is inhumane and this is the lesser of the evils? I for one think the later is the implication.
But enough chatter regarding the title let’s get on to the article which is pretty much, yup you guessed it, a one-sided list of lies that ole Sue’s BLM boss Bob Abbey could be proud of. The Cattoors have made millions off from the backs of traumatized wild horses so why would anyone think for a single second that they wouldn’t believe it is such a wonderful and noble thing that they are doing. Sue is pulling all of these starving horses off from the over grazed range so the handful of wild horses that are left can grow fat and sassy. The Cattoors have been drinking that BLM Kool-Aide for far too long.
I won’t answer sentence by sentence but I will counter Sue’s hurt feelings for the likes of us using the term “Stampede” when we refer to their helicopter chasing horses down. That’s what it is Sue, it is not a walk, trot, gallop, stride, nada…it is a head long rush to escape the 100+ mile an hour generated winds, noise and terror from a giant metal bird that is swooping down upon these terrified creatures. Panic, sheer panic is what ensues when your helicopters chase the horses upon our public lands. There is nothing calm, civilized or humane about it and you have actually run the hooves right off from horses in doing so. Documented, signed and sealed so don’t attempt to quote a dictionary to me as to what the meaning of the word “stampede” is, you have taught it to me well, in person and it ain’t pretty.
If you have the stomach for it you can read the article by clicking (HERE) but I won’t dignify it on this website…she has a whopping 9 comments on it at the time of this writing and most of them are from family, friends or maybe even manufactured email addresses as all seem to think what she is doing is so wonderful and kind. Bullshit.
Personally, I believe that the Cattoors, employees of the BLM and DOI should be arrested and tried for thousands of counts of animal cruelty and held to the same standard that the general public is as outlined by very descriptive warning signs on BLM supervised land. But no, our government allows these private contractors to decide what, when, where and who can watch their destruction of OUR wild horses on OUR public land. It’s an outrageous travesty.
We said it before and we will say it again, Sue…we live for the day when you and your indicted hubby just go away, dissolve, disappear, never to be seen again over the blue skies of our public lands. And as we gaze out over the empty plains we will remember that once there were happy bands of wild horses there, living out their lives prior to the cattle and your cruel intervention. Now those horses are in long and short term holding while the bulk of them have been sold off to slaughter to tantalize the palate of wealthy foreigners; our national icons in the bellies of other nations. Thanks for being great Americans, Dave and Sue, you’ll have a whole lot to talk about come judgment day as you sold your souls to the devil a long, long time ago…and that devil, today, is Obama’s BLM.
Sleep tight.
Related Articles
- Obama Administration’s Animal Cruelty is Apparent in Wild Horse Stampede Video (rtfitch.wordpress.com)
- Obama Administration to Begin “Largest” Wild Horse Stampede of the Winter (rtfitch.wordpress.com)
- Major Humane Organizations Plead with BLM to Postpone Deadly Wild Horse Stampede (rtfitch.wordpress.com)
- BLM Denies Wild Horses are “Stampeded” (rtfitch.wordpress.com)
- DOI/BLM Dupe Public and Congress in Covert Wild Horse Land Grab Scheme (ppjg.wordpress.com)
- Delusional… (artandhorseslauraleigh.wordpress.com)
- Interior Department Criticized for Biased, Whitewash Report on Treatment of Wild Horses During Government Roundups (yubanet.com)
Categories: Horse News, Horse Slaughter, The Force of the Horse, Wild Horses/Mustangs
Straight from the Horse's Heart 
http://www.fedspending.org/fpds/fpds.php?&company_name=cattoor&sortby=u&datype=T&reptype=l&database=fpds&detail=0
The 2011 BLM Budget has not been approved by Congress (BLM is requesting over $75 million!)– BLM budget request online here.
Regardless BLM continues spending millions in taxpayer dollars on massive, unnecessary roundups — even targeting more herds for total elimination! BLM is requesting $42.5 million dollars to implement stage 1 of purchasing private lands in the East for the outrageous “Salazar Plan” and an additional $12 million for the wild horse and burro program to reduce the size of 5 herds.
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R.T., Thanks, I think. Actually I will not make myself read her remarks. I already know those people lie and am so angry at what they and the Holmes of Vernal are doing that I would not dare go to watch a stampede in person even if I could afford the fuel. I am also sheepish about even admitting I live in the same state they do though I have never seen them that I know of except on a few videos but those usually aren’t clear so I wouldn’t know them if I saw them on the street.
I have been near helicopters when they are landing and lifting off but at least I understood what they were and could duck or cover my eyes whereas the horses just know it is something big and loud and driving rocks and dirt into their mouths and eyes and stinging their bodies. They also know it will certainly eat them if they let it catch up to them so instinctively they run, and run, and run but can’t escape, like a bad dream they can’t wake up from. And that is only the beginning of a nightmare (no play on words intended) that for most of them will last the rest of their lives. I can find no shred of forgiveness in my old cold heart for the BLM or their contractors.
I do appreciate all the time and effort you put in to trying to keep us informed.
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[Part 1] I am just sick about all this! I cry my way thru each article and video. It is so heartbreaking! What they (BLM & their hired thugs) are doing is nothing less than premeditated brutality & murder of the innocent. It is completely inexcusable and un-necessary. Their methods are clearly designed to cause as much physical and emotional damage and trauma as can possibly be done. Anyone with one lick of sense can see that. Those carrying out the “removal” with such brutality are nothing less than wild life terrorists, hired by government agency and paid by tax dollars.
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[Part 2] So… WHY can’t we get the atrocities stopped? Letters, emails, phone calls don’t seem to have the desired effect. So what will it take? Do we need a couple thousand people to go there, and physically stand in the way to prevent the continuation? In past years, people organized “sit-in’s” and other demonstrations on far less urgent issues, and they won. So, with the huge numbers of American who are so adamantly against the abuse and slaughter of the wild horses and burros, why can’t we force the issue by some of those 60’s and 70’s type demonstrations? Just a suggestion. I, like so many others, am desperate to find solutions that will affect the saving and true protection of their lives.
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I will go on record saying that we are to a point where this may be one of the ways to stop this.
Behind the scenes we are still fighting in the courts but if a thousand cars showed up at the Antelope Complex do you think we would have the eye of main stream media, the President, the World?
I think so…this is the direction that we must go, to make a stand, to live the commitment and to make a difference. This is where we will shine the light and demand accountability and where we will put a stop to this.
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Hey Sue Charles and RT ~~ I think an old-fashioned sit-in with our cars/trucks/MOTOR HOMES is a FANTASTIC IDEA!!!! Especially if we all stayed there for at least a couple of days, bitching loudly and honking our horns some. It’s OUR public land, too, isn’t it? If we ever get something like this organized, boy, I’m gonna be there with bells on! We could have a 3-day tail-gate party, and I really think something like this will attract more people than any of our organized protests did. What I mean is, I think more Advocates would take part in an event such as this. Anyway, I’m all for it!!!
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THEN NEXT, I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE A SIT-IN ON THE FRONT LAWN OF THE WHITE HOUSE!!!!!
I watched “our president” (and I say that very loosely) in a press conference this morning – or yesterday, I don’t remember – saying that he told the president of Egypt that…”being the president of a country wasn’t something you take lighty. That it was VERY VERY IMPORTANT. AND THAT YOU HAVE TO LISTEN TO THE WANTS AND COMPLAINTS OF ALL YOUR PEOPLE, AND DO YOUR BEST TO HELP THEM COME UP WITH A SOLUTION TO THEIR PROBLEMS….YOU HAVE TO KEEP YOUR PROMISES.”…… Not every word is exact, but THAT is exactly what he said he told Egypts president. And my jaw dropped and I thought……..Man! What a HYPOCRITE Obama is….and a liar to boot!!! Obama DOESN’T KEEP PROMISES, AND HE SURE AS HELL DOESNT LISTEN TO US, DOES HE? I am so disgusted with this administration. It’s SO much more corrupted and full of secrets then yall even know yet. They are all lying to us…Obama, Biden. DOI, DOJ, BLM, AND THEY’RE ON A CHOP-CHOP MISSION TO GET ALL OUR HORSES ROUNDED UP BEFORE THEY ARE FINALLY FORCED TO STOP (By us advocates). Thats my personal gut-felt opinion.
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I agree 100%. Cars and trucks with horse trailers would be good. Bring your horses people. Make a stand on horseback.
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“Behind the scenes we are still fighting in the courts but if a thousand cars showed up at the Antelope Complex do you think we would have the eye of main stream media, the President, the World? ”
R.T. and Sue, I think you are exactly right. It would get press coverage and TV if they were notified and I doublt the BLM “Wardens” would actually shoot anyone despite their guns.
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i agree wholeheartedly Mr.Rt Fitch, we have tried hundreds of ways they all take to long, and dont get anywhere, i am sick of having to watch and read all the horrors that Our innocent Wild Mustangs are made to suffer,It is disgusting and unnecessary , that these beautiful proud , trusting, icons and giving horses are put through this degrading mess the BLM (bureau of Liars and Morons put them through daily for their greed, I have been ready to make some kind of a stand for them, for a very long time, there is only so much a human being can take, not to even mention how horrific it is for the Wild Mustangs ………….. Their Beauty and poise has never faltered through all of this, I must respect and defend that !!!! Their time is running out. we must not let that happen…………………I am listening to every viable plan that would put an end to this one that Our Mustangs can live Free with and in peace with………………….
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It may have to come down to something like that Sue because what we are and have been doing hasn’t slowed them down at all. And it is the horses that are paying the most severe price though the tax dollars being spent/wasted are significant.
But I would hate to see it come to large demonstrations on site(s) because I know how they think. As soon as they got word it was being planned (and they would) they would start bringing in large numbers of security thugs and maybe even get law enforcement to back them up since according to them they are engaging in a lawful activity. They would try to block all access roads to prevent anyone from even getting close, possibly even threatening arrest and prosecution for trespassing if anyone tried to go beyond a point arbitrarily set by them. The first amendment would be tossed out for all practical purposes at least for the duration of the demonstrations. There is also an excellent chance that the administration friendly media (as in lap dogs) would try to portray the demonstrators as aggressive animal rights extremists – some have already called us that and no one has even done anything but show up and take pictures – that are trying to interfere with honorable BLM efforts to save the horses from starvation. I am sure you understand what I am saying. Emotions in this issue are very intense and I can just imagine, given the proven nature of the tin gods in the ivory tower at BLM, unwritten instructions to push things to a flash point if possible so they could splatter the whole incident through the media as an act of eco-terrorism (hasn’t ‘domestic terrorist’ become one of the favored paint brushes to be used on anyone who disagrees with government policies?) in order to further obscure what is really going on and take the focus off of the activities of the BLM and the scumbag contractors that are doing the dirty work.
I don’t know a for sure right answer, if I did I would tell you – but if congress cannot be convinced to shut them down by stopping the funds or if a prompt injunction to cease and desist pending further evaluations or something like that cannot be obtained from a federal court, or possibly a state court where they are operating – that doesn’t leave us very many options open that would bring them to a quick halt. What I do know is that if the heat is not turned up on them somehow and very soon, the horses will be gone from the ranges and it will be very difficult if not impossible to ever get them back in significant, breeding populations.
Sorry if I sound too cynical, I just think I know how they would operate.
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No worries, Wambli, there is a lot of merit to your comment and therein lies the rub. The BLM knows that they are violating the law and they are so paranoid that they go overboard with security and restrictions. When you operate under the premise that it is easier to ask for forgiveness versus asking for permission you get very nervous about getting caught with your pants down…and Abbey has been cornered with his jeans around his ankles. The only problem is that main stream media has yet to print that picture!
R.T. Fitch Author – “Straight from the Horse’s Heart” The Force of the Horse®, LLC 1-800-974-FOTH http://www.hfhadvisorycouncil.org http://www.rtfitch.com http://www.sfthh.com
Sent from R.T.’s iPad
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1st off
@ RT – Bob Abbey cornered with his jeans around his ankles
Good God man – MY EYES MY EYES!!
secondly –
I agree with Wambli about the BLM upping the security and hiring an outside contractor (uh the company formerly known as Blackwater – now called Xe???) if there were mass demonstrations at trap sites…if that happened someone would get hurt, and we certainly don’t want that. We don’t want anyone or anything to get hurt.
I think live streaming to the internet of trap sites is the best and safest way to go. When the American people are exposed to injustice – they respond. As Justice Brandeis famously said “Sunshine is the best disinfectant.”
Also – Madeleine Pickens is doing wonders by keeping media pressure on the BLM.
This is really about transparency….
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I disagree. I think an on-site protest is the way to go at this point. And if they blocked the road to the round up, then I guess the media pictures would have to be of 1000 cars lined up being blocked from driving on our public lands. And I really don’t worry about what they label us. One picture would tell the story. Hardly eco-terrorists. Especially this middle aged woman.
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RT my eyes and tummy couldn’t take that one. I about spilled that soda all over my brand new laptop.
Sorry but the thought of seeing Bob Abbey’s naked below the belt is too gruesome to bear to much thought too. I have no desire to see anything of that sort on that “subhuman”.
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“They would try to block all access roads to prevent anyone from even getting close, possibly even threatening arrest and prosecution for trespassing if anyone tried to go beyond a point arbitrarily set by them. The first amendment would be tossed out for all practical purposes at least for the duration of the demonstrations”
But wouldn’t THAT make for good coverage. I’m sure George K. would do us proud. There must be a few other media folks who agree with us.
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I can picture ATV’s, horses, dirtbikes, pickups, and whatever else could navigate the terrain coming up over the mountain and swooping down into the valley and surrounding the BLM.
Now wouldn’t that be fun!!
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They would do those things, but I think there comes a time when you simply have to do the best you can, even it’s only near an ideal site or if you end up arrested. Nobody wants to spend time in jail. Nobody wants to die a cruel, unnecessary death either. And comparing the two, I think I have it better than the horses.
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I could only start reading this when it first came up on the feeds and got to the part about how her husband had been rounding up horses for so many years this way and how experienced he is, but what she failed to mention is that he was CONVICTED for doing just this, I cant remember the exact charges he faced. Some days I have to force myself to turn on the computer and I feel nauseated at what I read. This woman and the “other Sue” are disgusting!
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Its a shame killing wild horses is ALL he knows how to do. I hope he’s using his millions he bilked from taxpayers to educate his children!! send those kids to college before there are no wild horses left to kill!
Thats all america needs another family of rich morons.
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Thank you for this good article! Its good I think to mention the rotorwash 100PLUS MPH winds blasting sand and rocks at the horses. I think in my opinion that why many horses are covered with cuts and some are even blinded.
Hey Sue how about standing in that rotor wash with your eyes open for a couple mins..let me know how it feels!
Also helicoptors generate a lot of static electricity..this is why people grabbing a hook or line from a chopper ALWAYS ground first.. I am sure the Cartoors know that the static arc off the helicoptor skids will arc and has the voltage to knock down a human. I hate the idea they are so freaking ‘sly’ they enjoy shocking horses to make them stampeed.
Have not addressed the extreme damage the helicoptors do to lands and other wildlife…they may even be the cause of a lot of wildfires? The BLM moves those choppers and their grunt workers trailers and cars on land where its a fire danger and not even allowed!
Seems to me a lot of the large wildfires are in areas the BLM runs or has ran horses on? could they be the start of some of these fires? Perhaps the experts should be asked.
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I totally agree with the “sit in” idea. I personally think it should have been done a long time ago. Anyone attending should be prepared to be arrested. It may already be too late to save our horses in the wild. But we have to try! Just let me know and I will be there.
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Back when Wild Horse Annie was alive and pushing for the protection of our Wild Horses, she got the school kids involved. When Nevada was asked by the US Mint to vote on a design for the Nevada state quarter, we turned to the school kids again and they voted for the Wild Horse design in record numbers. Maybe it’s time to ask the kids for their help again?
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There is something to be said for sheer hard headed determination and relentlessness–like water on a rock. They hoped that we would all be gone by now and that this would all go away–IT HAS NOT GONE AWAY. This has now gained national and international attention. The BLM has managed to make itself the target of scorn and contempt. The powers that are pushing the agenda stay in the shadows and let the agency take the heat. We just need to keep on doing what we have been doing. The more observers that go to the round-ups and the concentration camps–the better. There is NO need for anyone to get arrested. The BLM REALLY doesn’t need more bad press.
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I have to say that I agree with Louie on this. The BLM has been salivating to make “eco-terrorists” out of us all along, constantly calling us animal rights extremists, carrying guns around. Most of the media – even those who seem sympathetic – STILL call us “animal rights activists,” and when people see those words they think PETA, setting fires, etc. I’ve always thought these idiots were doing far more harm than good to the cause of ending cruelty to animals. This is an example of just that. Dean Bolstad called Laura Leigh “a terrorist” just because she was taking pictures. This is the mindset. I would really, really HATE to play right into their dirty little hands.
Don’t forget, since that benighted Patriot Act, we have no rights if we can be branded terrorists. And the govt. has been stretching terrorism to cover just about anything they don’t like. Makes me SICK, but with that law in place, they can do it.
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This in from an email. There has been a time change in the program that is due to be aired:
Madeleine Pickins will be on Issues with Jane Velez-Mitchell on HLN Friday January 28th at 730 pm to discuss horse roundup and problems with Interior Dept.
Thank you so much for your support. A little CHANGE of dates for the interview with HLN’s ISSUES with Jane Velez Mitchell. Unfortunately, there was breaking news that they have to report on for today…so our interview will be at the same time this Monday, January 31st, 7:50pm EST. Please change your DVRs and your calendar to tune it …that day instead.
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Dear Ones:
I also feel the time is coming when direct action will have to be taken. There is strength in numbers and I, for one, have nothing more to lose so if I’m arrested, I’m arrested. If I rot in jail, at least I know I followed my heart and my conscience. I am a peaceful person, but we can be up against a wall for so long and then we have no other option but to push back.
Just tell me when and where – give me a few days to drive out (I’m on the East Coast).
All Love
Padme A’Tea
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Why do I always hear dueling banjos when I see that photo of Sue Cattoor?
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This old (looks thin) mare fell (youtube below) on the recent helicoptor round-up. Now all I am worried about is the BLM is going to either shoot her or let her die from stress,road founder or colic/dehydration.
Is there anyway someone, anyone PLEASE- can get the BLM to release this mare to a humane group before they kill her like they do with ALL older/thin horses?
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I believe the safest close place is Madeleine Pickens ranch. It’s in this HMA. If we could get her and a couple other older ones there. I am so afraid they are going to try to round her up again!
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It is heart breaker obvious that nothing has slowed the BLM. It looks like they are ramping things up. I am losing sleep over this. Obama has done nothing and will do nothing. If the large numbers of the public show up to demonstrate the government will react with armed thugs and police to intimidate, and like other demonstrations infiltrators will be there to cause problems. This is how the power of demos are diminished. They will also set up blockades to keep you far away from any site. Demonstrations don’t work anymore.
Cattoor was indicted in 1992 for conspiracy & the use of aircraft to hunt wild horses. Cattoor should again be charged with severe animal cruelty on all levels by any of the strong animal rights groups. They also have much to hide and the idea of going public would be a big problem for them and the BLM. This may be an avenue to bring to this issue to larger public awareness about the wholesale slaugher of horses and burros. It is necessary to do something different, we have been to passive.
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Laura Leigh could use some company at these round-ups. This would be a good place for everyone to get to know one another–bring your friends and family–and come prepared to OBSERVE and DOCUMENT. The more the merrier. We can be the start of the new ECO-TOURISM industry–sort of like the Burning Man Festival?
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I only WISH I could, Louie. Seems like a super idea!
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Some Inspiration:
Joan Baez and Judy Collins
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Of course BLM would get word of a protest. And we would make sure the media was present. If some one would just set the time and place——-
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I have been pondering this overnight. A couple of thoughts:
1.) No way to keep any such activity secret so may as well be right up front and transparent about it…the main Nevada BLM office subscribes to this blog and they already know what you are talking about.
2.) As much as we would like to see it I can’t envision massive numbers of people turning out to the roundup site as it/they are rather remote, if it is massive numbers that we want then perhaps we pick a close central location like Reno where we could entice more folks to show.
3.) As I am writing, it has occurred to me that we could stage a two day event with one massive gathering in Reno and then the following day move out to the roundup site…in fact, I rather like that idea.
4.) Timing…the Antelope roundup is scheduled to be over the end of February, at the rate that they are going it will be longer or it could be sooner as there really are not that many horses there so when they reach 2,000 that will pretty much be the end of it for the horses, just like Calico. Personally, I won’t be in the U.S. until after mid-month and Terry and I were planning on heading out to support Laura. I will let you guys chew on it and when you think you have an idea for a date we will make a post/plea and we can use that as our central meeting place.
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Laura Leigh’s blog, ART AND HORSES, is a good place start. Laura is following and documenting the round-ups. She could definitely use some back-up and support. She could let everyone know where and when–link up with Laura.
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The case in which Dave Cattoor plead guilty in United States District Court (District of Nevada) is Case# CR-N-92-45-HDM(PHA). (May 22, 1992) . He plead guilty to One Count of CONSPIRACY and the Second Count of USE OF AIRCRAFT TO CAPTURE WILD HORSES AND AIDING AND ABETTING.HE WAS CONVICTED OF USE OF AIRCRAFT TO HUNT WILD HORSES IN VIOLATION OF TITLE 18, U.S.C.,SECTION 47 AND AIDING AND ABETTING IN VIOLATION OF TITLE 18 U.S.C., SECTION 2. IF YOU HAVEN’T PULLED THIS UP AND READ IT….DO. IT ONLY GOES TO SHOW YOU WHAT A CRIMINAL DAVE CATTOOR IS…AND HOW SUE IS TRYING TO COVER UP THE TRUTH OF WHO THEY REALLY ARE. HE WAS ONLY FINED $500…AND TO THIS DAY HAS CONTINUED TO MAKE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ..PAID IN YOUR TAX DOLLARS, HIRED BY THE BLM.
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In the above article I have included the link to the indictment if you click on “indicted hubby”…also, if you look off to the “Box” widget on the right of your screen you will find it there and you can download it. Golde is spot on, Sue wants you to think of them as wonderful people but here we have someone working for the Feds who has been charged with stealing wild horses and selling them to slaughter. Gosh, I don’t have something like that in my background, is that considered “normal”?
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Don’t forget he has a no-bid contract too. Meaning people with integrity need not apply. The Govt. prefers lawbreakers to round up out national treasures.
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SOME DAYS MY BRAIN JUST GOES BLANK BECAUSE OF THIS! I AGREE W/ALL OF THE PEOPLE THAT THE NEXT THING WILL HAVE TO BE A LARGE GROUP OF PEOPLE STANDING GROUNDS. MAKE SURE MEDIA IS THERE, BUT THEN WHERE HAVE THEY BEEN????? EVEN MY DAUGHTER HAS SAID YOU HAVE TO FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO FOCUS ON. CAN’T BE DONE,JUST SAY THE WORD, I’LL TRY MY BEST TO BE THERE FRONT & CENTER!!!!!!!!!!
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Believe it or not, our Wild Horses and Burros DO have friends in Nevada–they just aren’t the ones getting the press.
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It appears that several believe a mass demonstration is the way to go with this. Perhaps it is, I honestly do not know and was not trying to talk anyone out of doing it. Each person makes their own decision on something like that. But I do recognize and share the passion involved in this issue so my thoughts were to put some reality of what individuals could be up against. Again, I am not trying to scare anyone or rain on anyone’s parade but if something like this is organized and carried out then those going into it should know what they might be faced with.
It is all noble and grand sounding to declare willingness to become a martyr for the cause and I understand that. There are contingency plans already in place for this sort of thing, maybe not about horses per se but they are flexible and I can practically guarantee that in anticipation of something potentially this big they would prepare temporary enclosures to hold those they deemed to be too unruly, according to their judgement, not yours. Some speak bravely about their willingess to be arrested but how many have ever actually been thrown to the ground, handcuffed then locked in a guarded pen. That could ruin your day, believe me. I know, some are saying “Well that is what they are doing to the horses!” and that is correct, despicable as it is, but if you are locked up you can’t help the horses so strict self discipline and a cool head on the part of each demonstrator would be imperative to keep everything under control.
And of course the media would be there for an event on the scale this is being envisioned by some. But it must be remembered the media in this country is no longer comprised of unbiased, objective reporters looking for the truth and nothing but the truth. Many if not most of them accept the the government line as the Gospel and, frankly what they are looking for, dare I say some are hoping for, is controversy and what we used to call “buckets of blood” because that is what sells. The few demonstrators that will get face time on TV will be those who are the most outspoken, angry and passionate and whatever they say will be ‘clipped’ into sound bites to create whatever image the government influenced media wants to present. For the most part they support this administration whether right or wrong. Someone like Laura Leigh who strikes me as cool and calm might get as much as ten seconds compared to someone openly declaring how angry they are about what is being done to the horses that might get a whole minute. Stop and think about the “news” coverage you see on TV and realize how it is broken up into very brief sound bites and can be cleverly twisted out of context. The networks don’t usually have time to do a complete story so they just do pieces. Enough on that but it must be obvious I have very little faith in the neutrality or objectivity of the main stream media or that they would be particularly helpful.
None you know me and that doesn’t matter but I will tell you I have been highly trained, and am experienced, in civil disturbance and crowd control both in the military and law enforcement so when I advise you that I know how “they” think, I do. I have been around a long time and maybe I have seen too much of real life, not the way it is portrayed on TV or the movies. Sometimes when I look at what is being done to the country I once knew I think I have been here long enough. Take that for whatever it is worth.
How many that think this might be a ‘fun’ thing to do have stopped to reallize the overwhelming power the federal government can bring to bear when they perceive a threat? Ruby Ridge, Waco, and Wounded Knee back in the ’70’s come to mind where they literally put hundreds of boots on the ground and none of those events involved a thousand or more protestors. But people were killed on both sides.
Around a thousand? Okay, that would certainly be impressive so consider the details of logistics. For example how many porta-potties would need to be brought in? They would certainly be needed for a crowd that large and it would fall on the shoulders of the organizers to provide them. No government agency is going to do it for you. How much would enough cost and who would pay for them including the after-event removal and servicing that would be required? And how about site clean-up afterward? Yes, we are talking about being on public land but there would be a responsiblity to leave it clean. Those kinds of things would need to be organized. Although I am sure most of you are quite conscientous, we have become a throw away, fast food society and having seen the aftermath of large gatherings I can tell you there is usually so much trash left behind on the ground that it looks like a land fill, just not as organized. The prevailing attitude seems to be “I’m outta here, let George do it.”
Imagine what a sweeping calvary style charge of people on foot, horseback and ATVs would look like to those you had effectively put on the defensive with such an action. It would look to THEM as if they were about to be overwhelmed by a disorganized, out of control MOB! Sorry but there it is. All it would take is for one or more of them to panic because they are not clairvoyant and WOULD NOT KNOW you intended them no harm. Plus that we have no idea of how well trained or disciplined they would be in the face of what they would perceive as a very large dire threat. Things could go irrevocably south in a split second.
And it won’t matter if you are a brave middle aged lady. Remember the incident somewhere in the upper mid-west, I don’t recall exactly where and chances are you never heard of it but obama was going to some kind of meeting and they feared the Tea Party protestors that said they were going to be there. So what did they do? They actually had police SWAT teams deployed in full, black battle dress, weapons, helmets, bullet proof protective gear and the whole ball of wax including snipers on the rooftops, to cordon off the building and keep those violent protestors on the other side of the street. Quite a crowd there was too but the police had them outnumbered. About a dozen middle aged to elderly ladies quietly holding up some hand lettered signs. Nobody got shot or beat up or was calling out nasty things so it didn’t get much coverage but that is an example of how they can react in today’s world.
I think someone misconstrued one of my points. I don’t personally care what label they stick on me such as eco-terrorist but what I am concerned about is the image the public perceives of the Advocacy over all. And like it or not, that is greatly influenced by what the main stream media feeds them in those 60 second sound bites on the six o’clock news.
All right, I’ll stop. Ya’ll do whatever you think is right, just be prepared. They will be and they will be looking at it from a possible worst case scenario view that some few of you, and they won’t know which ones so from their point of view it could be anyone, may intend physical harm to those handling the horses.
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I’m with you. I’d like to know what Laura and the others that are out there every day have to think about this. I’ve had a little experience with dealing with the “security” forces of our federal government out in remote areas (and not so remote areas) and it has not been pleasant. Everyone has to make their own decisions, but please be guided by those that have their boots on the ground out there. Take care.
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Remember when the BLM flunkies first started carrying guns and made it clear that they were “ready to take it to the next level” ? They would love nothing more.
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Yeah Suzanne……and the shivering cowards at the blm headquarters at the DC protest, had armed policemen on horses waiting for us ! That was SOOOOOO CHICKEN S–T.!! The blm knew we were harmless, they just wanted the media to think we are terrorists.
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I actually think they are afraid – that and the guns make them feel big and powerful. My husband and I are both in security-related professions, and LE officers do have concerns about eco-terrorism escalating in this country these days. Once fear like that takes hold, it’s hard to make any progress with negotiation as far as a cause goes. It’s a complicated issue, but one that can’t be dismissed. The only thing to do is to constantly drive home that fact that wild horse preservationists are completely non-violent.
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This is very good advice. I was at the Pryor Mtn. round up in 2009. We had a group to protest the round up. And of course, when the TV cameras were rolling, the BLM reps. were nice as could be. The BLM propaganda machine is well funded and very good. We all know that. At a Challis round up in 2009 my neighbor was hand cuffed for wanting to observe…..and he was a well respected individual, who worked with search and rescue efforts all over the state. The BLM considers US ECO-TERRORISTS. THINK LONG AND HARD ABOUT WHAT WAMBLI OKIYE IS SAYING HERE. WHERE IS OUR TIME, ENERGY, AND DOLLARS MOST NEEDED HERE?….DON’T FORGET HOW MUCH $$ PEOPLE WOULD BE SPENDING TO STAGE SUCH A PROTEST. Perhaps the $$ could be better spent fighting BLM in litigation,working on developing RMPs, funding people like Laura Leigh, feeding rescued animals, etc…..CHOSE YOUR BATTLES WISELY.
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not to mention the least of which what a police/arrest/ and yes, MAYBE even a conviction (of civil disobedience and or/resisting arrest) would do to your record. Things like that have a way of creeping up on you years later in job interviews etc etc. And ONCE you are in thier system, they will watch you even harder the rest of your life regardless of how good you behave. Everyone intersted in a protest rally should read a book called “Truth or Dare: Encounters with Power, Autority and Mystery” by Starhawk.
A rally would have to be large enough to get notice – there are lots of public gatherings that never make the national news (unless you are in Egypt). It would have to go off with out a hitch. But Wambli is right, one never knows when something wrong will go off – Kent State for example (and for those of you who are too young to know Kent State, Google it).
Maybe the power of the school children……
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I remember Kent State all too well. And, there was a time when I was just lucky to keep one step ahead of the law because of some political activities. Long, long ago. These are all very wise comments, and I firmly want to drive home the fact that any type of protest should be completely non-violent.
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Wambli, your concerns and cautions are well taken. You are most probably correct in thinking that advocates would be “baited”. CAUTION is advised. We are dealing with a criminal agency that is backed up by an impotent judicial court system. In the current climate, a PRESENCE rather that a protest would be more prudent. Putting advocates behind bars would only remove them from public view, as has been done with the Horses. We don’t even know WHAT they have done with the Burros. The American Public does still have the right to be on its Public Land, the BLM says so on its website. They invite us all of the time.
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Now just when did you start believing anything BLM says? They may say we are welcome but the actuality is somewhat different. 🙂
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There is no humane way to roundup the wild horses. OK if you do it by horseback the work might go slower and there might be fewer injuries/deaths–but in the end, the wild horses lose their herds/social structure/land. There is nothing humane in any of this. (Akin to ideas of “humane slaughter”) The only humane solution is to leave them on their designated lands and manage them there. Oh– that’s what BLM is charged to do.
I agree that a demonstration might be the most effective route–but we also need to consider the work of Laura Leigh and other advocates that are documenting BLM –and do not want to be denied access to the “gather” areas.
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You are correct Ann. Even rounding them up on horse back is not efficient and I think they should be left alone. Read J. Frank Dobie’s “The Mustangs” originally published in 1934 describing the methods used back in the latter 1800’s and early 1900’s to round up the hundreds of thousands, some claim there were over a million but no one really knows how many there were. But my point is there is no way a herd, whether large or small, can be rounded up gently and slowly. They are wild. When they perceive a threat their first reaction is to run away. Of course they are then chased and it turns into a race for freedom as far as the horses are concerned. They were frequently driven into traps back in those days too and fought just as hard to break out. Huge numbers of them were injured and killed, according to the sources Dobie used, old wranglers that had actually been there and done that, sometimes as many as half of a captured herd would be lost. But no matter, there were thousands more where those came from. Well, there I go getting long winded again but I love the true histories of these Western lands and those who inhabited them long ago.
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‘Humane’ method of round-up? Of course it is – humane for the people. I can’t imagine how sore I would be if I tried to round up wild horses on horseback. ouch. I do, however, think there is a tiny bit more inhumane way to round up horses – the old ways that Velma Johnston saw, the methods shown in “The Misfits”. But only a tiny bit more inhumane.
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These are gentle, kind-hearted and innocent folks that come to this blog. They don’t even have a concept how those people think. We can’t spare a single one of them.
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Yes, I fully realize this and since I am a protector by nature I just wanted to let them know some of what might be involved so hopefully they will not be blind-sided.
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Yes, I like the word “presence”. That sounds like what I had in mind.
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In fact, it would be wise for large groups of people to go and stay together. It is very chilling to realize that this agency is ARMED and these round-ups are held in very remote places.
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Why is the enemy within our borders? Why is the enemy a govt. agency that is supposed to take care of us and what we treasure? Why are we supporting this enemy with our hard earned tax dollars? Why are there 83 petitions against this agency and its actions? Why won’t Obama listen to us? –I listened to him! I can get a ticket to Washington DC. I’ll march.
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I have only one question for “Twirlybird Sue”: Can you please tell me just ONE way of rounding up horses that is LESS inhumane than by using helicopters???
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Oops. Please delete the above. I meant the opposite of that! My point is that there is NO process of rounding up horses that is MORE INHUMANE than by using round-ups. Sorry for the typo. Too long a day.
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This “phony interview” always ads fuel to my fire! Being with Mustangs exclusively for over 28 yrs, and running Ultra Marathon Endurance races with them allowed me to know them quite well. I take Sue Cattoors idiotic comments, about the Mustangs “…..being afraid to go down on a narrow rocky path. or being afraid to go up on a steep incline, or can not find water….they have to be helped, or her husband shooting a poor 25 yrs old grey stud, who managed to survive in the wild to a ripe old age, in spite that he was blind and toothless, plus able to sprint 10+miles at top speed in the sweltering 100F heat of the desert……”.I could go on and on, however my BP is rising! I wrote her a letter, that she did not answer, after the above interview,……attached a photo of my Endurance Champion Mustang and I scaling a 20′ near vertical rock wall with ease………”dedicated to Sue; ….does this Mustang looks scared to you Sue?:))”
At any rate, I feel massive protests is the next step! We all need to come together, regardless of differences amongst strong minded advocates. Because this is a diverse group I feel the key places for communication should be RT’s page, Cloud Foundation and GRH. This way we cover everybody. All of us have our favorite sites. (…mine in particular is, this site and Cloud, for up to date factual info!) If we truly want 1000 plus people we have to circulate info wide and far post on multiple sites. Thanks RT for reminding me of that “half ass” interview of “Ms. Wild Horse expert, Sue Cattoor” now you got me all fired up! :))
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There were protests a year ago and those could continue. You can go to the Cloud Foundation blog ( Dec. 2009-Jan 2010) to view them. People got together throughout the nation and across the ocean and did it in the public, where they could be seen and let the public know what is going on. Those wonderful people stood out in the freezing cold, holding signs and pictures and distributing information. I do believe they were quite successful and more valuable people came into this because of them. They were held in PUBLIC places and were very peaceful. In fact, law enforcement was most helpful and grateful that the people were so gracious and caused absolutely NO problems.
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I agree with Wambli and others here–the round-up sites would not be the place for a protest–you are on their turf there and they would hold the advantage, but LOTS and LOTS of observers are a very different thing. Also, LOTS and LOTS of visitors to the concentration camps (holding facilities) are good. It is just too easy to hide atrocities behind closed doors.
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Even though I am still riled up I agree, also. In the long run, it will only hurt us and maybe even cause problems for the horses…but Laura sure could use some help with observers, though.
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I like the idea of large numbers of OBSERVERS. That is the appropriate term, I believe.
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I guess I just assumed that non-violence was understood. If we go as OBSERVERS rather than protesters or demonstraters, that has a better sound to it. Plus we need to keep in mind ourselves that’s what we are. Good examples are Ghandi and the civil rights movement. Those people remained non-violent no matter what was done to them and some horrible things were done. Resorting to the same evil tactics as them will not keep justice on our side. There is enough violence being committed to the horses. It is evil.
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In speaking with Laura what would REALLY make a difference would to be able to put together teams that would observe. Teams of ten that could spend a day or so replaced by another fresh team instead of a big wad of us showing up for a day and then gone. She could really use some coordinated help out there, that’s for sure.
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Great suggestion!
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Ellen, you are RIGHT ON–history attests to the fact that the only REAL and lasting progress that has been made has been won through non-violence. I was told by someone that I loved and admired that the MULE is the symbol of the Democtatic Party because it was originally the party of the Working People–the ones who keep the country going and pay all of the bills. A Mule cannot be make to do anything against his will. He will simply NOT obey. It really takes more effort to try to make him do something than to do it yourself. I have even heard stories of the abuse that they suffered in mines. They would go over a cliff, rather than continue on with the abuse. They are VERY intelligent and people who understand and work with them have a great deal of respect and affection for them.
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True. The biggest problem with getting a large group of wild horse supporters together to advocate is to choose a time and place that are significant. I did not go to the DC rally last year because Congress was scheduled to go into recess the next day.
During the Civil Rights movement, citizens organized marches and sit-ins, some were arrested and hauled off to jail; others like Senator John Lewis of Georgia were beaten severely. The only way it would be reasonably safe to have a protest in a remote area would be to have police, FBI, support as well as TV and interactive media present. We are, and certainly a number of you have been already, giving up a certain degree of control when we choose to assemble.
I wonder if the President understood what Ghandi meant when Ghandi said that one can judge the character of a nation by the way it treats its animals.
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I am beginning to think that having a demonstration in a remote area will not be as effective as originally thought…although it was a good thought.
The disadvantages are many, distance would inhibit the number of participants and possible media. You are required to have a four wheel drive and adequate clearance to observe at remote spots.
There might be more value in staging a demonstration in front of the Area BLM offices in Reno where people have easy access to transportation, lodging and food. Likewise, media coverage would be all but assured. Once completed teams could break up and go assist Laura.
R.T. Fitch Author – “Straight from the Horse’s Heart” Director of the HfH Advisory Council The Force of the Horse, LLC 1-800-974-FOTH http://www.rtfitch.com http://www.sfthh.com
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RT, that sounds good. Sometimes it takes some brain storming to get the ball rolling and come up with the best idea. Let’s go somewhere with this—–
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Yes…I think we should, let’s proceed and there is no problem with being public about it, it’s all about transparency, honesty and the truth.
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On The other hand, Glen Beck with the help of Sarah Palin as well as Jon Stewart held huge rallies on the mall in Washington that attracted thousands of people from all over the country. These rallies went without incident. Each rally was organized over a period of several months. Strict rules for what could be worn and what could be brought to the rallies were advertised. I believe the attendees in both cases carried themselves with a certain degree of decorum. Nor do I believe that either group trashed the place. In fact, the challenge was to leave the site better than you found it.
While I believe that it is possible for chaos to occur, good planning and anticipation can ameliorate the situation. I appreciate the cautionary tales, the different opinions of others. A lot depends of how we express our purpose. Why not not bill it as a rally to Save Our Wild and Free Roaming Horses. We could sell t-shirts, coffee mugs, plush toy mustangs, ball caps, buttons, bumper stickers, to raise money to continue to challenge the BLM in court (pay for port-a-potties). We have two things going for us: First, we are on the side of protecting one of the most beautiful, gentle, generous, and magnificent friends to mankind on this earth, and the second is, our strength comes from our love, and nothing is stronger than love.
No one who works for the BLM or anyone else should fear for their physical safety from any of us. Our goals do not include hurting human beings. We just want a moratorium, a scientific study done, and our horses returned to their historic herd management ares where they can live without fear of the metal monster birds or raging lasos. Furthermore, the federal law that has insufficiently protected these horses has been carried out by flawed human beings. We need better people carrying out the law, a better law, or both.
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AMEN!! to both R.T. and Christie
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