By Erin Durkin / DAILY NEWS CITY HALL BUREAU
Liam Nesson with Arnie the horse and stable manager Conor McHugh on Sunday at the Clinton Park Stables on W. 52nd St., where the actor showed his support for the horse carriage industry.
It came straight from the horse’s mouth.
Actor Liam Neeson who hosted a dozen City Council members Sunday at the stables that house Central Park carriage horses showed some unbridled anger at Mayor de Blasio’s absence.
“He should have manned up and come,” Neeson said about Hizzoner. “I’m disappointed he’s not here.”
The “Non-Stop” actor invited all 51 council members to the stables to show the horses are treated humanely in a bid to derail the mayor’s planned ban on the industry.
“These horses are well cared for,” said Neeson, who has become the carriage drivers’ highest-profile ally, at the Clinton Park Stables on W. 52nd St., where 78 carriage horses bed down.
“It’s a connection with our past, it’s a connection with our history,” he said. “And it has to be said — the great white elephant in the room, four prime locations on the West Side of New York that realtors must be salivating to get their hands on.”
“I’m firm about the fact that we have to make this move,” said de Blasio, who skipped the tour with Council Speaker Melissa Mark-Viverito (D-Manhattan).
“The reason I want to visit the stables and will do it when the schedule allows is because we want to work with the folks who operate those horse carriages and get them new opportunities in other types of related work,” he said, citing a proposal to replace the carriages with antique electric cars. “We want to make sure we’re listening to their concerns as we do it, but I’m clear about where we need to go.”…(CONTINUED)
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Categories: Horse News
Straight from the Horse's Heart 
I also believe that the horse and carriage belongs in NYC. It is a shame when others try to take away something that has been around for a long time !
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It was a shame when we got rid of slavery, bear baiting, dog and cock fighting, and bull fighting too, eh? Just because something has “been around for a long time,” or has some historical context, does not mean that in today’s world it is moral or ethical to keep it around. Our sensitivities towards animals is evolving – I hope.
As a compromise (since it appears most in NYC want to keep the carriages) I would propose new care rules and protocols for the horses to be worked and maintained under. I’ve seen lots of horrid feet, swollen joints, and sad-looking eyes in many of the carriage horses. And what of aftercare? I bet most of these horses, when they are completely spent and worn out, are not turned out in a retirement pasture somewhere. Most of us know where they really end up.
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It’s obvious you know nothing about horses… Ignorance is the biggest problem with people in this country…. And this is a prime example.. Comparing horse carriages to slavery, baiting and fighting is ridiculous and you need to go educate yourself… Signed… Horse owner..
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Where is the “LIKE” button?
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Yes!! where is the LIKE button?…Well said Diana Stuart!
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Jennifer, your post is ridiculous. You don’t know a darn thing about me, my education, or my background so it is YOUR ignorance that is glaring here. Attacking posters in the manner you did me is not going to forward your opinion very far.
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Sorry that I got off of what this is really about… Mr. Liam Neeson was really wanting the Mayor de Blasio to look at how the horses are cared for in the stables. If they are cared for in the stables does not mean that they are cared for on the streets of NYC. Carriage rides should be for the park as it was once before not on the hot streets or traffic of NYC !
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Absolutely agree with you on this! Carriage rides per se are not the issue. What is the issue is the “environment” of those rides today. Rides in the park on softer footing, and with rules in play on how many hours each horse works and under what climate conditions, would be acceptable to most horse welfare people. But there have to be changes in rules and protocols if the carriage trade continues.
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The Mayor can visit the stables any time he wants, he doesnt need an appointment or a special invite. This was going to be a confrontation and I am glad the Mayor didnt attend. This is not a good working environment, this isnt about tradition or “always being there”, this is about animal welfare. This really isnt about how well swept the stables are, or how the manure is managed, or what type of hay, its about the horses on the streets. And no, NYC doesnt need carriage rides, its dangerous and unhealthy for the horses. Stick you nose at the end of a tail pipe for an hour then tell me you “love your job”. Horses cannot speak for themselves, people have to be their voice and LIam Neeson isnt a voice I will listen to.
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Absolutely…I remember watching a carriage horse being forced to run on Fifth Ave in NY….It was Noon, 97 degrees, and I stood on the curb screaming at the driver to slow him down. The horse was drenched…I was looking at ribs. The stables are great, but care at a stable doesn’t indicate they are treated well when pulling carriages in heavy traffic. I love Liam Neeson, but he is off on this one. and they are voting about it in this link. Right now, the Mayor is winning! http://mycrains.crainsnewyork.com/blogs/polls/2014/03/whos-right-on-carriage-horses-bill-de-blasio-or-liam-neeson/
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Good point, Shirley! City streets are no place for horses and carriages. When people use the argument, “They have been around for a long time,” to justify this harmful lifetstyle to the horses, my response is that doing something wrong for a long time doesn’t make it right. The accidents are deadly. The spooks and near-misses are horrible and destructive. The fumes are horrible. Subjecting horses to this life is horrible just so some people every day can have a 10-minute or 30-minute feel-good experience of New York City. That person gets to leave. The horses have to live and work and breathe there. Just because the horse lives in a 12-by-12 stall with soft shavings in which they can turn around means they are “well cared for”? Please! Horses need to be able to move and be with other horses.
That said, they are amazing, tolerant animals who adapt themselves to us in phenomenal ways: That puts even more responsibility on us as humans to do the right thing by them. It is time to end the horse-drawn carriages in New York City.
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The Carriage rides can be fixed so everyone is happy, the carriage rides can be kept in the park only !!!!!
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Good on the Mayor for banning it or trying to! I’m sue Liam N thinks they are well cared for, and I am sure they could be in a worse place. However non horse people cant understand the repercussions of boxing a horse that much, and the damage it does to them health wise. Also, that horse looks like crap! All the hair rubbed off him, wormmy an generally unwell reminds me of a battery hen!
furthermore, HORSES DO NOT BELONG IN A HIGH RISE OR CITY ANYMORE THAN FISH BELONG ON THE LAND. Human selfishness is awful we should start to respect our animals and planet, rather than just using them for our own viewing pleasure and not caring! If you want to see a horse go to the country!
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So I am confused. Are the horses being mistreated here or not?
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They dont belong on the streets with traffic or breathing exhaust fumes for 9 plus hours a day. This isnt a place for horses, no major city is.
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Where was Liam when in the heat of the summer horses have suffered on the streets of NY?
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Carole:
You posted, in a different way what I was going to say….” Mr. Neeson, please be there with the press when one goes down, gets hit by a vehicle or goes to horrific slaughter.”
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Have to disagree with the current mayor. These horses are cared for better than way too many – for instance the ones sent to feedlots & then to slaughter! Draft type horses were bred to pull wagons etc. They certainly appear well fed & content. Sure the box stalls aren’t huge but if there’s room to lie down & turn around, its better than standing in a straight stall. If they all get 5 weeks vacation turned out – that’s pretty good. The idea that kids (and adults) can actually see & feel a horse even in the city makes me feel good about it. I’m sure the carriage rides are expensive, BUT if someone comes to NYC for a vacation & one of the draws is a ride in a horse drawn carriage – I bet they feel the price is worth it.
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I don’t think the mayor knows fully of what he supports.
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Maggie – with all due respect, do you think that breathing exhaust fumes 9 hours a day is okay? Horses noses are at the level of heavy exhaust, they dont belong in heavy traffic. If carriage rides were just in central park and away from traffic, then this may not be such an issus. Because the horses arent in a feed lot, or so you think. They do end up there, its just not front page news. Check New Holland Auction each week, you will see them come and go . . . Also, where are the records that the horses get their vacations? Arent sold to slaughter when they can no longer work? Many of these horses arent draft breeds either, so I know you are repeating what you have heard, not what you actually know. Hope this doesnt sound mean spirited,
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What about all the PEOPLE that live in that exhaust… and pay lots of money to do so? These horses are well treated and enjoy their jobs. They’d be bored in a field (or much worse, left with no purpose).
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Heather, not all the carriage horses are thin and mistreated, though some, too many, are. The controversy is the danger traffic, weather conditions, hours of work the horses are forced to endure, not to mention the wear and tear on the body (there is no weight limit for carriages, so legs/hooves and back are over worked and unnecessarily worn out/down).
Shirley, just because carriage horses have been around for a long time, doesnt mean that times have not changed and the dangers they faced have increased 4 fold. Bicycles have been around for centuries, how many people want to get rid of them? People have smoked for years, now people dont want others to smoke around them (rightly so).
There is too much traffic, because of black top and construction quality of air is..crap, too many people. Let’s face it, New Yorkers don’t want to wait or drive behind the carriages, the honking, cutting in front of, etc… is abuse. The welfare of the horse has be be at the forefront. If people “have to feel important/rich, let them take a carriage ride somewhere else.
If people really want to see what it is like, walk next to the horses and stay with them all day and get the same treatment they do, all the while remembering that you are not pulling hundreds and hundreds of pounds. Then comeback and defend “ritual”
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Read Heather Clemenceau’s article on this topic. Then, decide how you feel about this. I would personally at least like to see a compromise where they would at least be in the park and away from traffic. I would also like to see more offtime for them and pasture.
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Liam should be on on those carriages all day inhaling the carbon monoxide all day. Standing on the hot concrete all day in the hot summer, or dealing with the cold. Horses should not be subjected to standing sore on cement all day pulling weight of carriages. Sure, they are fed, cared for, groomed. But pulling carriages and standing and walking on cement and breathing in all that toxic fumes is no healthy life to live.
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Heidi, I do not disagree but your words in this context could well fit the wild horses standing penned on hot clay all summer in the LTH areas… with no shade, no chance to move out of hot wind, no misters, and no escape even for five minutes a day. We’ve all seen some horrific hooves among them, and that they must lay in their own dusty dry feces baking in triple digit heat. Some foals have died under these conditions (we won’t ever know how many). Toxic fumes… another lovely byproduct of oil and gas wells on public lands where our horses live. I have seen manure piles right up against the edge of tanks on drill pad sites, for example, though the pollution from leaking valves and tanks of ozone and methane (among other substances) is well documented.
We also have the shameful story of last Thanksgiving’s roundup in Rock Springs which left mares and foals in a Wyoming blizzard without shelter. They don’t call it Windy Wyoming for nothing… and to date still have no accounting for foals trapped in that situation, or any idea how many horses are still standing in those same pens for nearly 4 months straight now.
I have not been to New York so can’t comment on the situation there (other than that at core, the issue seems to have very little to do with the horses) but those horses at least have owners and care each day. Since these may be the only horses some people ever see I find value in that as well.
I can vouch for having worked with draft horses many times in my life and finding them very keen and happy to work. Of course there are exceptions but draft horses, for example, are bred and by nature are honest workers. Generations of ruthless culling by breeders has brought forth horses who are generally easy going and easy keepers, and happy to work with us. I think it’s wrong to assume any teamwork is a cruelty, or that pulling wheeled vehicles in dry, level roads is overwork. Extremes of course are a different matter.
But WE ALL own the wild horses and the suffering they undergo at the behest of our paid public servants IS our responsibility to correct. Overlooking a 50,000 + population which is suffering by our own hands (where nobody in New York or anyplace else gets much chance to witness) seems a far more pressing injustice to me.
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I do know the NYC horses conditions, and in summer, they roast, in heavy traffic, on hot pavement. Its really no different than the BLM holding facilities, just the background is different. I oppose both of these environments for the horses, I dont have to compare or pick and choose. Both need changes. BTW, not all the NYC horses are draft horses, many are standardbreds.
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Linda:
First, I don’t believe what you say is with all carriage equines.
Second, please provide your credentials regarding NYC carriage horses. I apologize if I missed a previous post explaining same. Seriously, your insight is important.
And your solution is what?
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Linda, with all due respect, I outlined how the situations ARE different, in that WE own the wild horses, and WE are paying for their abominable situation, and thus are supporting it. I suggested the holding facilities are actually worse since there is no variation or chance to move, or sense of anyone giving a damn about them individually. We all need to look in the mirror before pointing fingers at anyone else’s level of care for their horses.
It’s also clear from earlier articles on this site that both mayoral candidates ran on a platform of eliminating carriage horses, so the folks who elected them knew that. It seems the majority of people in NY do want them gone.
(I didn’t suggest all carriage horses are drafts, by the way, I only offered up what I know from my experiences with drafts as examples).
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No horse is meant to live in a cage….period.
Hey Liam – when you get home from your movies, try locking yourself up in your powder room for 12 – 14 hours every day for years. Then imagine you weigh around 1200 – 1500+ pounds. Are you into how humane your role/crusade is yet?
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R&Z:
You got a BIG problem with reality….let’s start with anyone that stables. OH…shut down racing in America (not that I don;t disagree with a horse being stalled more than 12 hours a day).
Find realistic solutions.
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Stalling horses for hours on end is also apart of this problem. It’s NOT humane and quite disgusting that LN would have us believe that it is so.
5 weeks of turnout within a years time for a grazing herd animal – yea that sounds great, great for the money grubbing humans
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I don’t care what breed they are or what type of work they do, but they should at least have turnout and pasture during the off hours.
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I am really dissappointed in Liam, first the wolves now the horses 😦
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I remember reading a comment a while back by someone who seemed to be knowledgeable about carriage horses. They suggested that some land in the park be set aside for them.
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Louie…they used to have it. The real estate became toooooo valuable.
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Many people have suggested this, for some reason, this is impossible. And apparently a good excuse for not keeping the horses on park property.
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As I said… MONEY!!!!
If the people KNEW, not just the real estate trolls…the equines might win. (with regulation)
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This was 3 years ago. Does anyone know whether the Horses are still there?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05…
Central Park, Built for and With the Help of Horses, Will Again Offer Them a Home
This summer, they will return.
The Central Park Conservancy has, since last year, been overseeing the construction of a stable in the park, and it is now set to welcome its first two residents.
Horses were once essential in the park.
“The park was built with horses,” said Sara Cedar Miller, the historian for the Central
Park Conservancy. “In 1857, when they started clearing the park, the only way
to get around was by horse and carriage,” or on horseback, she said. “They
actually brought in the soil, manure, plants — everything was transported by
horses.”
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This is about the Horses and their environment and treatment, Certainly do not want to take Jobs away …………If these People would just treat the Horses good, and give to them what they need to be Happy and safe and cared for properly we wouldn’t be discussing this now would We, it would not be an Issue would it ?????
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Either the boulevards around Central Park are shut down to motor traffic or the equines stay inside the Park. Horses should be sent to legitimate pasture for a period of time for rest and or illness and brought back if well regularly as part of the permit process.
BTW, there are 4 stables real estate mega million condo hogs are eying….seems clear to me what is going on and many carriage drivers are NOT ethical.
It doesn’t appear to be an all or nothing proposition in my mind.
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http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/03/staten_islands_ignizio_talks_c.html
STATEN ISLAND, N.Y. – City Council Minority Leader Vincent Ignizio talked horse carriages with Geraldo Rivera Monday morning – and said he remains undecided on whether to ban the industry from New York City.
He suggested one option might be moving the horses wholly into Central Park – relocating stables there and prohibiting rides on city streets.
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Not to you Louie…but, like Mayor Be Blasio….City Council Minority Leader Vincent Ignizio shouldn’t open his mouth til he educates his brain….not pocketbook.
How could one be “UNDECIDED” unless one has another conflicting interest. And it ain’t that hard to figure out the problems and fixes.
His alternative, while reasonable with caveats makes “decided” easy.
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Someone posted this comment….is it a possible solution? It does seem that the Horses AND the people would benefit.
http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/03/staten_islands_ignizio_talks_c.html
Comment
“My solution to the problem is to build a road completely around the perimeter of Central Park and within the park. This would eliminate the motor vehicle/horse problem, provide a path for the horse and carriage that is partially shaded and not directly exposed to vehicle exhaust making it more healthful for everyone. And, it would be readily accessible to tourists”
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Sounds more than reasonable, assuming Olmstead didn’t anticipate CP as it is now, especially the surrounding boulevards. Now, let’s see what the TROLLS running the park would do…they have been shoving equines out for the last 3 decades.
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Great Idea
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There’s NO reason for horses to be in traffic. This isn’t the days of yore, when horses were everywhere. We now live in an age where the pollution rate is terrible in cities. So get the horses out of there. Come on! And guess who will NOT be going to any of his movies? ME! MONEY TALKS!
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This all can be remedied, I like the Idea of moving the horses to Central Park, not sending them out to the streets as long as the facilities that house them is Good and built with them in mind and they will have a turnout area…..And of course proper health care,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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The NYC police dept.is now monitoring the NYC carriage horses. It was a policeman who saw a lame horse being driven a couple of weeks age. The driver ignored the obviously limping, lame horse. And this is just one problem with the NYC carriage horses. They are monitored, but the staffing is limited. This is one reason why the NY ASPCA stopped overseeing.
Then you have the carriage drivers & owners saying how well they care for the horses. Yes, some do. But so many, too many, will overwork the horses, push them on when ill or lame. Many get colic. Vets only come once a year for a quick look over. Therefore, there are many horses that should not be on the streets pulling & there are many incidents that are not reported. Many horses are small, not Percheron, pulling massive weights,
The horses do get 5 weeks “vacation,” but the owners will not say where the horses go. However it is known that the horses go to the Amish in PA for Rest. The vet says they come back thin & worn out. In addition, the NYC carriage horses come mainly from the Amish and/or New Holland Auction House. Once in NY, many horses just cannot cut it as a carriage horse & are sent back to New Holland.
There is a large turn-over of NYC carriage horses, The average working life of a carriage horse is 4 years. Then they are shipped back to New Holland…sold…most slaughtered. Again, this is not documented by the carriage owners. And the average life span of a NYC carriage horse is 7 years.
There is much controversy & debate about the NYC carriage horses:
1) They are working & not going to slaughter>>>wrong.
2) They are a NYC institution & tourist draw. >>>A majority of the tourists are appalled. And the horses need not suffer so people can have a “romantic” ride.
3) NYC population want the horses to stay>>>Wrong,
4) Other animals are in NYC: domestic dogs, cats, working dogs for the handicapped, so why not horse?>>> This one drives me crazy. These other animals are well cared for & not standing on a hack line, inhaling fumes, in major traffic, in all kinds of weather, stalled in “boxes,” etc, etc….
5) Animal rights & animal welfare advocates are working for a ban. However, the “Animal Rights” advocates are always named, meaning, animals should not be distinguished from humans, & other extreme measures. ”
Animal welfare” advocates are the majority working for a ban, including the animal rights advocates.
This is an ANIMAL WELFARE ADVOCACY FOR THE HORSES!
6) There are so many other horses needing rescue, care….why concentrate on the NYC horses?>>> Well, we DO know that one can work in other areas for horses and/or concentrate helping other horses. It is not an either/or situation.
7) There are NO rescues to take them.>>>Wrong,wrong. wrong. The rescues are ready for the NYC Carriage horses.
8)The horses will be left to go in the wild>>.Oh PLeeeease!
Lastly, there has been much talk of having the horses only in Central Park. This has proved to be not workable, in addition to the carriage drivers wanting the horses also on the NY streets. And there is no feasible room for stables or pasture in Central Park. All this has been debated for years. As for real estate grabbing?! $$$ Advocacy for getting the horses out of NYC has been going on years before the street death of carriage horse, Smoothie in 2006. He spooked from loud drums, ran, crashed to a tree. So era; estate is not an issue for the stables.
For further information please read:
http://heatherclemenceau.wordpress.com/2014/02/01/myths-half-truths-and-lies-of-the-commercial-carriage-horse-industry/
http://www.banhdc.org
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thankyou.
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I’m sure everything was all prepared to look good for a scheduled visit, which means nothing at all for the way the horses live on a regular basis. Those horses have been hit by cars in the streets of NYC, they are run beyond what they should have to endure, I will never have any respect for Neeson again due to his effort to continue to subject these horses to this cruelty, which has gone on for far too long. Plaudits to Mayor de Blasio for standing tall and for putting an end to this atrocity. I hope he will also focus on the cruelty toward dogs and cats in that city, and how the animal control kills multitudes of beautiful animals on a regular basis.
I salute you, Mayor de Blasio!! Please save those horses and see that they have a beautiful place to retire, which they deserve, and please insure that the selfish individuals who want to keep running them to death pulling carriages don’t send them to slaughter houses.
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If you don’t like slaughter, then don’t support businesses that keep it going. The carriage trade is one of them.The carriage horses have to make $100,000 a year or they go to the same auctions and feedlots the slow racehorses and the PMU mares and foals go. Those drivers don’t keep horses that don’t produce! GFAS has a list of sanctuaries that will take horses that have no where to go if the industry shuts down. But they will continue to be overwhelmed by horses if these industries stay in business, constantly discarding the horses that pay their bills. It’s like johns and prostitutes. We all know who does the work and who keeps the money. Same deal here.
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