Horse News

The BLM Distorts Truth but the Facts Speak: The Calico Herd is GONE

Letter to the Editor, Steven Long, of Horseback Magazine ~ by Robert Bauer

Calico herd stampeded by BLM Contractor Helicopter ~ Photo by Elyse Gardner

Recently you received a letter from the Division Chief of the BLM, Don Glenn (see below) stating that certain field people as well as the Nevada Dept. of Wildlife had witnessed mustangs in the Calico Complex in groups of 30-50 leading the BLM to believe there were at least 600 horses out in this region. Also recently , wildlife ecologist Craig Downer did an over flight of the southern and central portions of Black Rock East, Black Rock West, the Calico Mts. and Granite Range hma’s.  In this he counted only 31 horses as opposed to 350 cattle in those same regions. In the first week of June, I toured most of the 5 hma’s of the Calico Mt. Complex with two experts including a range manager. We surveyed Black Rock West ,  the Calico Mts., Warm Springs, as well as the east side of Granite Range, not to mention areas outside of the hma’s for completeness sake.

The range conditions proved to be excellent with more than adequate water yet we found thousands upon thousands of acres of land void of any wild horses. In total we counted 9 horses while observing well over 330 cattle. We found four of the horses to be lone stallions associated with no bands, a very rare occurrence, one bachelor band of two and a band of three comprised of a stallion, mare and a yearling. What water sources were available were cut off from the mustangs, through the abundance of fencing in the areas and found them having to drink from puddles in the road. The stud piles and other sources of horse manure were for the most white in color, ancient in age indicating a once active area but now void of any kind of wild horse activity.

Last year in the month of November, before the gather, Craig Downer and I did an exhaustive survey of all five hma’s , documenting range conditions as well as that of the water sources, along with condition and numbers of mustangs, and a census of the cattle. During that time, again, we found mustang bands separated by hundreds and sometimes thousands of acres yet in excellent condition and the areas from which they came from under populated as far as the horse numbers were concerned. Under no circumstances did we ever find mustangs in groups of 30 to 50,  rather we found small bands separated by large stretches of land the largest of which was eight mustangs.

From Freedom and Good Health to This ~ Photo by Elyse Gardner

I know it is difficult to observe all wild horses in an area doing only a ground census, nevertheless if 600 horses existed in these areas, in groups of 30 to 50, we   undoubtedly would have seen some indication of this. Instead what were found were vast stretches of land with nothing except the sound of the wind.

What is interesting to note is that the owner of Soldier Meadows, who pushed to have the wild horses removed from that area, is seeking approval from the BLM for a wild horse sanctuary where they would shoehorn 1700 wild horses into a 5,200 acres area. This figures to be about 3 acres per horse. This they are seriously considering in light of the fact that they could not tolerate 1922 wild horses in the 500,000 plus acre area of the 5 hma’s from which they were taken, something which is an act of hypocrisy and a total contradiction on the part of the BLM.

How does one express what is going on. It is a scientific fact that the wild horses are a benefit to the range land and its biodiversity based upon there physiological makeup, grazing habits, and over all free roaming behavior. It is just as much a scientific fact the detrimental effects of cattle on the range land and its water sources, yet the BLM have raped the land of its horses and continue to increase cattle grazing in the area, at the taxpayers expense, all under the guise of establishing appropriate management levels of wild horses. Yet nature has been establishing what are considered appropriate management levels of all forms of wildlife including the wild horses for thousands of years, based upon environmental and predatory conditions, and doing an excellent job of it. Yes, there are continual fluctuations of numbers of varying species but all in ecological balance based upon natures mandate.

How is it that the Bureau of Land Management thinks it can take over what nature has been doing successfully. Indeed, the BLM has been a complete failure in their attempts at managing something that doesn’t need to be managed. If the fencing were removed from these public lands, which belong to the citizens of the United States, to allow the free movement of the wild horses, and the horses restored to those areas from which they were taken, balance would be restored as long as the BLM kept their hands off.

As I was leaving these areas where the wild horses once roamed in abundance, I looked out over the expanse in front of me trying to take everything in. It is not an attempt at theatrics to say that all I could feel was a deep ache inside and an immeasurable feeling of sadness in viewing the empty land in front of me. While up in Pryor Mountains and out in the range lands of Nevada, before the roundups, I told myself I wanted to take my grandchildren out to these areas, that they would be able to experience the mustangs in the beautiful manner that I had. Now I question that there will be anything left of the wild horses for anyone to enjoy.

Sincerely,

Robert C. Bauer

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mr. Long,

I spoke to the District Manager for that area yesterday. He told me his field people as well as Nevada Department of Wildlife people are seeing groups of 30 to 50 in different places throughout the Calico Complex. We are confident there are at least 600 horses in the area. We will do a comprehensive inventory in June. We can provide the results when we get them compiled.
Don Glenn,
Division Chief
Wild Horse and Burro Program

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76 replies »

  1. “I spoke to the District Manager for that area yesterday. He told me his field people as well as Nevada Department of Wildlife people are seeing groups of 30 to 50 in different places throughout the Calico Complex. We are confident there are at least 600 horses in the area. We will do a comprehensive inventory in June. We can provide the results when we get them compiled.
    Don Glenn,
    Division Chief
    Wild Horse and Burro Program”””

    This man has a lot of nerve to say this!! He needs to be held to his statements. Who exactly reported 30 to 50 wild horses in this complex and exactly where is the report and pictures? your district manager better supply proof with pictures!!

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    • What’s that comprimised integrity idiot smokin’?

      Don’t both BLM AND MMS have a docuemted history of sex, drug, drinking parties with the very people they are supposed to regulate? Mr. Glenn must have started the celebrations early.

      This entire situation is just so heart-breaking…it just never stops with these creeps.

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  2. Very very sad, as sad as it is for US, feel how unutterably sad the horses are, not only the ones in the pens, but the ones remaining in the mountains, searching for their friends, families and rivals, and finding no one. It reminds me of the stories of the refugees after the Holocaust, trying to find family and friends, and realizing the magnitude of what had happened.

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    • It is very much like the Holocaust. I think it just ruined my day thinking of those terrified horses. And THEIR lives are ruined. I pray our Emails and protests will stop this murder soon.

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  3. I’d like to see BLM take Craig out with them when they do a count and show him where all these horses are. Or is it possible to drive with egg running down your face? I was going to contact some people today but I’ll either put it off til tomorrow or wait till later as I am seething mad and horribly sad right now. I read Craig’s notes after his flyover but somehow it didn’t really sink in, reading this a second time it has suddenly become all too real. I better sign off before I let loose with a string of cuss words.

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    • No independent observation for them. If the BLM HAS found this type of evidence, I would think they’d WANT an advocate to see it to prove they aren’t spinning the numbers. How many “groups” of 30-50? Where? “Seeing” is anecdotal. Where’s their video/photos/documentation? And, personally, I think 600 is just another mathematical approximation.

      I remember with Bordo, a source outside the BLM mentioned that ranchers in that area have been suspected of driving their own horses onto that HMA to up the count and justify more removals. This is also anecdotal, but I wouldn’t put anything past those who want the wild ones gone by whatever means possible.

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      • Horses can be dumped into an area from any number of sources to artificially bring a count up even in areas that have already been gathered.

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      • So so so sad, my only thought is that if they did indeed think that they see herds of 30 and more then they can’t tell the difference between cattle and horses and are trying to fool themselves into believing that the cattle are horses. IDIOTS!!!!! So much more I would like to say but I am in too much pain to do so right now with any rationality.

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  4. Darlene, what film are you talking about? Laura’s? Do you think the BLM would put out something that shows a helicopter bearing down literally on top of a baby struggling to keep up with its herd?

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  5. Totally agree!~ Leave things alone!~ These horses are a part of America, symbolizing our own freedom!~ Leave things alone that don’t need fixed!~ The Government is destroying a peace of our country, what this country represents!~

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  6. I have always wondered, how the BLM comes up with their numbers! I am an Endurance rider, and rode many of the Nevada races in the past 20 years. I did the Pony Express series, right in that Calico complex. Rock Creek, Soldier Meadows, the very same area. We were on horseback of course, so Wild horses would have been attracted . The largest band I saw was 30 ! I told this to the BLM people, they just stared. One agent said well there are hundres, I told him I wanted to see them, he just gave me a stare again! We must stop the dispersal of the horses from this last roundup! We need to demand a head count with a couple of advocates aboard, along the BLM agent!

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  7. Don Glenn sure was quick to hop over there and leave a comment! When did he suddenly get so concened with public opinion? After spending all that additional money to hire the expensive consultant to “protect” themselves “legally” from the public? It’s all Theatre of the Absurd. Unfortunately, the American taxpayers are funding a great deal of it.

    Go to The Cloud Foundation Blog and re-read the 1971 Act. There are too many “rat holes” in it for these guys to disappear into. . . with the horses. . .

    Every wo(man) a rat terrier!!!!!!

    RUF!

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  8. Don Glenn is full of it. By the time they do their census (and who is doing it? Dave Cattoor’s staff/) all the Calico horses will be gelded or dispersed. This is an absolute outrage. Do not trust one sentence that comes out of Don Glenn’s mouth. He speaks with forked tongue as do all BLM officials. The only new direction acceptable at this point is a complete moratorium on round ups so a complete census can take place in all HMAs. (long overdue).
    We must get horses returned to this range before it is too late.

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  9. The BLM relied on the contractor Cattoor for the numbers of horses to round up on the range. Do you think Dave and Sue Cattoor told the BLM we’d better stop so there’s 600 horses left out there or do you think Cattoor rounded up every horse they could find (paid by the head) and then stopped only when they could find no more? When you rely on horse thieves to do your job, I’d say they rounded up every last horse they could find. Either the BLM knowingly rounded up just about all the horses in the Calico range and then lied to the American people about it, or they are so inept at their job they had no idea how many horses were there in the first place. Either way suggests they are no longer able to be entrusted with the public mandate of wild horse protection. The BLM is a tool of the special interests, just like the rest of our government. Why don’t they just call themselves Bureau of Land to be sold to the biggest pockets Management.

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  10. So you are for people being herded and shipped, just not horses? Sounds like the same old white man entitlement philosophy to me.

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  11. This is the source fo the “30 to 50” horses in a band..I spoke to Dr kane right after the outbreak of pigeon fever at fallon, one of the topics i brought up what was the true number of horses left on the calico..Dr. Kane was at the gather site and said he counted 38 horses just outside broken arrow..horses that had peeled off or couldn’t keep up..I asked how they had arrived at that 600 number, having become very familiar with their protocols for doing flyovers to do counts..I pointed out that they had not had the time to conduct those flyovers per protocol..he skirted that question and gave me that june figure for doing a census..Tracie from mustang blog flew out to nevada was there for a week around march..spent a day driving the perimeter of the complex looking for ANY sign, manure- tracks..found a solitary track of a mare with an obvious newborn foal going down to a culvert along the road looking for water..there was no water there and the tracks headed out..the only live horse she saw was right a dark, and there on the dirt road was a black stallion..the encounter was brief..she threw on the brakes to avoid hitting him..we believe that coal black stallion to be freedom and he had not been able to find a single mare. As she got closer to Reno she saw bands of virginia range horses..not calico horses..don’t be shocked to see photos of those horses “claiming they are calico horses”..BLM figures and methods of deception are escalating..

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    • Absolutlely horrifying that they removed all the horses. Solitary horses without family bands, mares and foals without protection of stallions. And you know what? They could care less if they took all the horses.

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  12. Bob,
    I know you’ve seen my video on the Vanity Fair website, because you generously consented to let us use your great footage of Freedom and Lightening in it. In our interviews Jim and Neda detail their plan and clearly state that the plan is to use the public and private land – half a million acres – for the sanctuary.

    I was very surprised to read in the Reno Journal Gazette that they were going to put the horses only on the private land. You reiterate this pov when you say they are “seeking approval from the BLM for a wild horse sanctuary where they would shoehorn 1700 wild horses into a 5,200 acres area.” Did you confirm this with Neda, or pick it up from the RGJ? I don’t think it is accurate. As you point out, it doesn’t make any sense at all and would be impossible to do.

    This needs to be clarified with the creators of the plan before it is spread around and taken as the truth. From what they told Kurt and I it is NOT their plan.

    thanks,

    Jeff Roth

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    • I did some background work on soldier meadow ranch and kudnra prior to the calico gather…I believe that 5000 acres is what he owns..the rest is in cattle allotments..Up to this point BLM has been resistent to allowing wild horses to graze cattle allotments..you either put cattle on them or lose them(case in point BLM trying to take the allotment away from the greenfire preserve in Idaho..from Western Watersheds Project) Right now..only that 5000 acres is available to those horses.

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  13. My personal feeling is this…the BLM is afraid if they allow one of these preserves to go and include public land with them..it will set a precedent, and the cat will be forever out of the bag…what they want is for the horses to be far away and forever removed from the western lands-they have other priorities and the horses are the one obstacle that is removable..or they themselves would have considered it an option..there is complete resistence to this plan..which is why all the preserves to this point have been on private land.

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    • Well, BLM is also removable! The breakup of MMS just needs to plow ahead through BLM like a bulldozer!

      It is hard for the public to fathom all of this. Most will only focus on MMS and the oil spill, not even beyond this to all the other oil rigs (CNG projects, etc) out there already just waiting to blow because of deregulation and shoddy construction from fast tracking. If we (they) can’t even get our minds around the scope of that how do we consider how wide spread it really is? The apple does not fall far from the tree and that we have an entire organization of rotten apples across an entire horizon may be just too extreme for most human thought.

      And that a Federal agency could operate, in my opinion, like a puppy mill of inhumanity on one hand, like a Bernie Madill (what was his name?) on the other hand scamming our tax dollars, and like toxic waste dumpers on yet another hand allowing destructive cattle and removing beneficial horses, all wrapped up in neat legislation that no congress person ever even read before they voted, seems like a farfetched movie about corruption doesn’t it? Must be made up for theatrics right? But it is reality with our wild horses. How do we hammer away to get this across?

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  14. I’m crying! All too sad.

    If BLMs mouth is moving or their fingers are hitting a key board they are lying.

    And let me get this straight, just asking. Taxpayers put 1.2 million dollars in Cattoors pockets to “reduce” horses on Calico because “there mgiht be a drought in high desert summer” and like chicken little, “the horses are starving, the horses are starving, oh my!”.

    However, Calico has basically no horses left, the horses gathered were almost entirely in great body condition, especially for winter, and forage and water were are are abundant. Opps!

    Kudrna and BLM were discussing Kudrna’s project secretly during the law suit, which puts it on a timeline before and during Calico, while at the same time Kudrna was supporting BLMs removal of the horses?

    Now, if Kudrna get his preserve, Cattoor will make how much to return the horses to basically the same high desert land they came from?

    And before Calico we paid ZERO, we will now give even more tax dollars to Kudrna for the horses to be on basically the same high desert land they were before. Or does Soldier Meadows get more rain in summer than Calico?

    I was sort of chastised for not knowing Neda (is that her name?). Like, why should I? If Neda is all she is cracked up to be she may have made the wrong bedfellow with this deal. It seems to stink to high heaven. I hope she can come out and clear this up as a good thing. I want what is good for the horses no matter what.

    So if this perserve goes through, and Cattoor takes some more of my taxes to move some horses once again, I’d rather see the horses on range land than in holding. Then we sue BLM for enough to put them back on their real home land (suing ourselves, our tax dollars again, but worth it once and for all) and yet more of my tax dollalars in the pockets of Cattoor. Or, the Kudrna land was for sale – buy him out, make it Public Lands for the horse’s primary use in perpetuity – where nature is left to its own devices. Move just a few horses back to Calico and leave some to this new homeland. Of course, get the cattle OFF! Probably have to pay Cattoor to move them all too?

    I should think we have “standing” as taxpayers who have been scammed out of tax money from our own lively hoods? How is that NOT HARM?

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      • Hey, Janet,

        Are you as exhausted as I am from trying to watch/listen to the meeting? Sure hope someone is recording or taking copious notes on the rest. I sure was disappointed the coverage didn’t go until 5. My head is splitting, but I would have toughed it out for the wild ones. L.

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      • Wish it had gone until 5. Hope it is back up tomorrow, though watching an Advisory Committee meeting is sort of my idea of hitting my head against a rock.

        It was fun and they did say it would be recorded for later. I trust The Cloud Foundation among others will post the link when it is available.

        I fear we are now in the open waters on our journey and the seas are high.

        Roxy seems to have 20/20 vision on all this. . . I feel queasy about some of these plans. . .especially because there is no appearance of propriety in any of this!

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    • back to the subject of soldiers meadows..Read the american herds expose” on this subject and what came out in the FINAL EA on the calicos..the BLM approached and encouraged The Ruby Pipeline to PURCHASE Kudnras ranch, and partner with the BLM on land that was part of the Calico HMA..all this happened after they rounded up all the calico horses..so while discussions were going on with Neda, they were also going on with the El Paso Corp..there is more to this story than what meets the eye..its not that we are just being negative..many of us spend an enourmous amount of time reading documents and doing research..I personally was a paralegal for the asst. us attorneys office in calif..not accepting things at face value is part of the job description…and we have discovered much that goes on behind the scenes…we are all just being very careful at accepting things in this arena at face value..my life is not at stake..but the horses lives are-which puts a greater burden on the truth

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    • Roxy, if one believes what the BLM said in the EAs and in court reading the transcripts of the WWP lawsuit on the calicos..all 2500 hores on the Calico HMA never left soldiers meadows allotment or the Piute meadows..In fact i suggested to Dr. Kane that if they soley congrigate there in the summer that it should be easy to bait trap the horses and move them across the meadow to the broken arrow gather facility on Kudnras land..he said there were too many water sources on soldier meadows..and i pointed out that their EA said they needed horses removed because of a lack of water sources..and i vividly remember the article in the paper with Kudnra standing next to a water hole condeming the horses for destroying ALL the water sources on his allotment.

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      • So, Soldier Meadows was PART OF THE CALICO roundup area, am I reading you correctly?

        To your other post, yes. I am all for anyone that can take our wild horses and put them on open range, like you say I am not being critical, other than they have just not provided answers to questions, and raised the skepticism themselves with the secret behind the door dealings. Am I making more ado about something than is necessary? I have been caught too many times on the guilty side, not for my fault, but for being too accommodating sometimes. The future of wild horses depends on us.

        I want them, more than anything, to be right and move forward.

        Jeff has said in his Article posted today that we need to stick to the truth. So, I guess I am asking Jeff when is that going to come out?

        If BLM and Cattoor are creating some round robin to generate cash flow, then whoever is involved is going to get sucked into that.

        I don’t want to keep the horses from going there now that they are rounded up, but I don’t want to pay my taxes to remove them and then pay again put them back – add insult to injury!

        And pay Kudrna to be their caretaker when they were already there for ZERO in the first place. Salt in a wound!

        I would like to say deal with that later, but would we forget it? Did someone come up with a scheme this obvious and think out of desperation no one would notice? If it is not scheme they need to “show” that, not just “talk or video” it, they need to debunk everything with facts that they can prove. Put it all down in black and white as you have, though I do need some links for your info also.

        I come from a work environment where I, and my coworkers, had to provide hard cold legislative and/or scientific facts for every move we made. If we had done any secret thing the City Manager, Mayor and/or City Council would have a public stoning of us in a heartbeat (figuratively). It’s engrained in me – and suites my Aspergerish side to a tee.

        As yet, though I am getting better at it, cannot read those environmental assessments and the like that you point to and feel uncomfortable to understand them, appreciate your perspectives more than you know. My back ground is construction and fire codes, zoning, land use, haz mat, related environmental topics, engineering, local ordinances, regulatory stuff, and the like, which are their own language. And we could rely on the city attorney’s office to help out on occasion. When we got involved in State legislation, wow – that needs a paralegal! Now, trying to read through Federal proposals, I just stick with The Cloud Foundation – otherwise I am clueless.

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      • I read your post again. For my thick skull to get this right – the horses that were left on the range after the Calico were in part, in Soldier Meadows?

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  15. Sandra and Roxy,

    Please view this video regarding the Calico plan put forth by Jim Kudrna and Neda DeMayo: http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2010/06/a-solution-for-americas-wild-horse-crisis.html

    Krut Brungardt and I made three trips and stayed at the Soldier Meadows Ranch lodge, starting in Nov. last year before the roundups, during the roundups, and when Jim and Neda first met there to discuss their plan. This video is the result.

    The wild horse issue is frustrating and heartbreaking, and it is easy to be negative and find fault with almost every aspect of what is happening to the wild ones.

    Yet we need to be thankful when good ideas and willing partners present themselves and be careful not subvert potentially positive efforts. Jim Kudrna actually presented a plan two years ago to BLM Nevada state officials in an effort to use his almost 500,000 acres as a horse sanctuary. It never made it to the national office, probably scuttled by state BLM employees not enamored by the wild ones.

    But he made the effort that long ago. He could just run cattle on his land like everyone else in Nevada – whatever else you say – you have to applaud him for being willing to go another way. Lets support positive efforts, if we don’t, the horses have no chance.

    Sandra – you are correct about having to use grazing AUMs for cattle – the idea behind the Jim/Neda plan is to get he BLM to change that. And yes, the BLM does not want to set this precedent, and cattlemen do not want to see cow AUMs eliminated. That is our challenge and the purpose of the video – to show the public, congress and the BLM how much more sense “on-the-range-management” makes, and how much less money it takes.

    We all know Cattoor stinks, but does it make sense to say we shouldn’t return these intact stallions and the rest of the Calico horses to the Calico range because someone we don’t like might benefit from it? Getting the BLM to return almost 2000 horses to their natural home should be fought for regardless.

    Jeff Roth

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    • Jeff, thanks for the post. I just read it a second time.

      So we have some misinformation. Someone said he only had 5000 acres. You are saying he has 1/2 million acres? How many horses can survive naturallly on 500,000 acres? So we are not taling about all the Calico horses, some could also be returned home if that side of the battle wins out?

      It would be great to have some presidence to change many BLM strongholds.

      If someone can find a free range home for any horses I hope they make trillions of dollars from the deal and I will not begrudge them one cent.

      Why do we often automatically equate making money, self interests or agendas with producing bad results?

      I say I don’t like the secrecy part. I could have learned what I will now possibly not have time to learn, all during that. I’d like to see an article from those in the know that is just dry and factual, time line stuff without the commentary. And why, what was the secrecy it about? Goofy, unless those involved can come on and justify it and provide evidence of any positive results. I’d really need this clarification, because I’m all over the blogs and I don’t want egg on my face – its ok here, but not out in the world.

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    • I am behind the plan to release 1700 Calico horses to this public/private partnership. I learned about the plight of the wild horses from Neda DeMayo. She knows wild horses. She left her former life to save them and preserve family bands and their genetics. I trust her horse sense, so to speak. I know nothing of Kudrna, so I can’t comment on his character. The genetics of the Calico wild horses need preservation. They need their family bands. We need to begin supporting people coming forward with plans and ideas. The alternative of long and short term holding prisons and strikes piling up on them at caravan adoption events is a thought I can’t bear for these incredible horses. Now, to see what the BLM will say. This should be interesting.

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      • Where can new wild horse and burro advocates learn more about Neda and her life story with the wild horses and burros.

        Thank you.

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      • She runs Return to Freedom WIld Horse Sanctuary in Lompoc, CA. Visit the website. Don’t think there is much of a bio on her, so I’d email them and request it.

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  16. Jeff thanks for the post, I had found the Kudrna property on an interent site of ranches that have wild horse tours about 6 months ago; I am hoping that this goes through,
    a sanctuary in SD also has to run cattle on the land, that’s law in SD, evidently, they seem to all get along ok, so, my feeling is, WHATEVER it takes to get some of these horses back on their land or close to it, please let it work,

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  17. I am so tired of hearing the word socialism. The ONLY socialism we have is corporate socialism, where they give the public their debts and keep all their profits. Same as cattle subsidies, they take tax payer money and PUBLIC land, for their uses and keep all the profits they reap. Socialism isn’t bad except when corporate giants USE the tax payer to reap windfalls, while we get nothing but more debts, they Are and have been doing this for years. The cattle ranchers and big pharma, corporations, like oil companies, Monsanto and chemical monsters, giant agribusiness etc etc are the only real welfare babies that exist sucking us all dry and they lobbied our politicians to have it that way. BOTH Republicans and Democrats. The corruption of the BLM reflects the sick and disgusting greed that controls our country, and politics. Corporatacracy is what it is. Rounding up people like animals is a type of mentality that feeds in to the insanity as well.

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    • Amen, Jodi. Rounding up and removing wild horses and wildlife or killing all wildlife by oil spills. Welcome to the Corporate States of America.

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    • Socialism, not to get into debate about any merits or downfalls, implies the contributers benefit. CATO Institute calls the Welfare Ranching Scheme a “failed” socialist program. At its core in the depression, it helped to fed our country and support those ranchers and jobs. Now it just sucks up taxes that go to “for profit” corporations.

      Socialism is the opposite of fascism, which is more what we are now closer to. We contribute taxes, the corporations pretty much do not, but get everything and run everything, with no social responsiblity, like they don’t have to do jury duty. There are some good ones though – research FLOR carpeting and read up on that CEO – gives hope!.

      Cuba was fascist (and we loved them!), then they had a revolution to become socialist. Couldn’t fight us on their own, so they joined up with communism, which was never really socialist or Marxist either one.

      I read an article, or actually it was on PBS I think, last year or two, from someone in Cuba, who had also lived in USA a short bit before the revolution and again after while in a residency swap program, a little older than me from the examples she gave. She would rather live in Cuba where she can learn and become whatever she wants from whatever beginnings anytime she wants. She has freedom of speech now (other than overthrow, but she said why would she want to do that?) that did not exist under fascism, which was just corrupt corporate thugs doing whatever they wanted, to whomever they wanted, whenever they wanted, ran all the news outlets, and there was great poverty. She feels very safe now, some poverty, but not anything even close to 40 – 50 years ago in a bascially corporate class system. She became a doctor midlife and lives above average, but not in any elitist or entitled way. World traveler. Most that scrambled here in boats were kicked out of Cuba, they were not fleeing – as our press and government told us. She felt she actually had a say in government that she did not witness while she was here. According to this one woman anyway.

      I’m personally, for ballance.

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  18. All these messages are wonderful–but where do they go?? Does President Obama see them?? We are all writing and hoping and praying for the survival of the wild herds–but does any one–who can do something positive– see these words? I feel like we are oil covered pelicans.
    What is wrong with MY government –that it does not see anything amiss in the round-up and penning of these horses ( and burros) that were promised freedom on federal lands. My TAXES are paying for something that is Wrong!
    Put the wild horses back on their lands. Nature will balance the herd size. Put back some good stallions/mares to produce some good foals. Put them all back–they were fine without the BLM interference. They were not lame/skinny/sick/broken/aborting. They were managing themselves just fine.

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    • These sites are educational, new stuff comes up all the time. I am here still as a newbie and learning. I ask a lot of questions, and share my thoughts and support. A lot of trying stuff out before I take it “on the road” to outside news article and other blogs. I know I can always rely on the folks here to keep me on track if I wander.

      But, to answer your core question, I participate in all the Care.com and other letter writing campaigns, sign the petitions. Right now the BLM Public outreach, if I can ever figure out it works. A while back many of us participated in force on a DOI outreach program (that we think might be one reason for this BLM specific one – but who knows?). I have been a little amiss in some other writing, but off and on I write to the entire white house staff, Obama, Michelle, my own congress people, etc.

      Right now I have found a jewel. I have started participating in a political blog that covers many subjects. I find I can sedge way (finally found that spelling)) many conversations to the wild horse issues at least once every day. Starting to get some positive feedback today, nothing negative so far. I think some are busy researching as they have not heard about it before. We need numbers, in the millions to get on this campaign, and letter writing, and protests, so that is my little contribution.

      There’s a lot to do. The Cloud Foundation has started some children’s activites for the long run. There have been rallys and protests. There is no just winning this, this is forever, because there will always be rascals. Speaking of rascals, many go to all the BLM meetings. And the cream of the crop participate in several radio shows, even been on CNN, MSNBC (?), and others, with a huge impact on Las Vegas Channel 8 by George Knapp. And a lot of sharing of links to timely information – see George Knapps investigative report “Stamped to Oblivion”.

      Anyone have that link for Ann?

      Sometimes we use humor and sarcasm.

      Like

    • I forgot Herd Watch – Boots on the ground field observation of horse numbers, forage and water supplies, holding facilities. As that takes off and get some funding we will see incredible support for science based projects. The types of project are unlimited, tracking cattle allotments, talk of tracking BLM statements, tracking BLM responses to inquiries, tracking BLM inconsistencies in the news. The mind boggles where this will end up.

      Like

  19. Roxy,

    Did you watch the video below?
    http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2010/06/a-solution-for-americas-wild-horse-crisis.html

    this is a complicated issue and Kurt and I tried to make it clear even to the uninitiated. I hope we succeeded.

    Jim Kudrna owns about 5,000 private acres, along with this land – like much of the land in Nevada – he gets grazing rights forever on about 450,000 adjacent acres of federal land, public land, our land, for a very low fee for grazing only cattle.

    That approx. 500,000 acres comprises most of what the BLM calls the Calico Complex Wild Horse Management Area. Almost all the 1900+ horses waiting in the pens in the Fallon short-term holding facility came from this land. The judge has thrown out the legal case that could have forced the BLM to return these horses to their rightful home. But the BLM could return them there if enough public pressure came to bear on them, especially since the judge did indicate that holding facilities are probably illegal and it’s just a matter of time before a legal case does decide this permanently. As far as how may horses can survive there, as Jim says in the video – 5,000 have already survived there easily – could be 10,000 or 20,000 total, nobody knows until real science is brought to the question.

    jeff

    Like

    • Yes I did, but I guess I missed that. We need something in writing, simple, dry, boring, just a time line with exaclty what is going on, all the numbers laid out. Or, sadly I won’t be able to follow it.

      Thanks

      Like

    • Jeff;

      I would like to thank you for bringing your perspective to the table, here. We need to gain as much insight as possible into all of the potential possibilities.

      Thanks for your efforts.

      R.T.

      Like

  20. Take 6 1/2 minutes, turn it up loud, jump up and sing along – ROCK ON!

    Need “miracles”, no one answers the “knock”, its not “what you say but what you mean”:

    My only “question” is, do I look that old?

    Like

    • “Between the silence of the mountains and the crashing of the sea
      Lies a land I once lived in, and she’s WAITING THERE FOR ME.”

      This song speaks for all the wild horses and burros in their confinement at our hands. . . the land is still there, waiting for them.

      Like

      • I know. Someone posted that song on a political blog. I listened and felt they were oddly singing direclty to me about the wild horses and the whole BLM mess – I cried. It rings true on so many levels for us, and somehow every single stanza (is that what they are called?) has wild horse or BLM implications – I was blown away!. I’m going to try to find the lyrics and post them here.

        I wish Willy Nelson, Sheryl Crow, or someone would put together a wild horse CD (proceeds to Freedom Fund) with songs like this and others, there are a lot that are direclty obvious, but maybe others like Questions that one would never guess of – what a pleasant surprise!

        Like

    • P.S.

      Anyone who is reading this who is going to be able to talk at any of the Denver meetings — please start talking about the moratorium — even if it is as “off subject” as Ms. Wallis was yesterday — just

      TALK ABOUT THE MORATORIUM
      PLEASE –

      Like

  21. I think that some of the previous, albeit seemingly off topic discussions are a reflection of and frustration at our governments…period. They appear incompetent, special interest activated and ineffectual all the while appearing like they are actually working and consuming tax dollars. I don’t mind paying taxes. I mind paying taxes for agencies NOT DOING THEIR JOBS! The DOI/BLM and the 1971 Act are a pristine, long timeline example of this BS. And Congress sits by and lets these executive branch agencies rip off the taxpayers, the resources of our country.

    Congress couldn’t agree on who should call the fire department if the Capitol was burning.

    Jeff had some fantastic and very well thought out ideas.

    Like

    • Ginger has stated on a few occasions that the wild horse situation is a direct reflection of the state of our democracy. Once, again, Ginger is right. Can’t help but comingle some topics with wild horses because they do impact this struggle.

      Like

  22. Herd Watch could use some funding. I think they are trying to get some grants, but that is still in the works. We need to support the humane observers as much as we can. Some are working on nothing but sheer guts.

    Like

    • Herd Watch will pull through, they will get fnding and grants – always slower that we like. How could such an excellent idea with such knowledgable and committed people behind it not?

      Remember to Shop the Cloud Foundation FIRST for gifts. And spluge a little on yourself while your there – you deserve it!

      Is Cloud Foundation on that same shopping thing that HforH is I wonder? I have not seen that promoted, they should. Sorry, don’t mean to take away from HforH.

      Like

      • They are on the Cafe Press. They have the Conquistador things from last Septembers horror in the Pryors.

        Like

  23. roxy,

    i don’t know anything about a Cattoor/BLM scheme to create cashflow. since Cattoor has been paid over $20 million since 1990 LEGALLY, I don’t know if that is really necessary.

    whoever is reporting that information is responsible for giving us the facts and explaining their story clearly and fully. anything else is rumor and not worth believing or repeating. It’s up to the person making the accusations to prove their case.

    i would be very interested in knowing the details of this story. I would put my energy into a video revealing this scheme if could be shown to exist.

    jeff

    Like

    • Jeff, I sincerely hope you are correct. I am willing to back Kudrna even if incorrect, as I want only what is best for the horse – to be on an open range.

      You need to disprove that Kudrna was in favor of these roundups though. Especially if he was publically, or secretly, in any way in favor of the removals before or during the Calico roundup. I have asked those making that claim to provide their evidence as well. If it was ascheme to movethem out of the way of Ruby and relocate them, then why secrecy? Sounds like a good plan to me, that is acceptable “tax dollars at work”.

      Having had money taken out of my pocket to round them up being supported by someone who, all along wanted them moved to his property with money out of my pocket, and was secretly working toward that goal at the same time, so he could get a stipend, again out of my pocket, is just not an acceptable precedent to me, smacks of “scheme”. If you can work it out not to set up that precedent – great, tremendous, I’ll write you in as President of the USA and pay for this ONE project without any hesitation.!

      You all did the secret stuff with BLM (I guess BLM?) during the roundup. Now YOU need to explain why – my opinion that does not make it bad, just questionable because I don’t’ know what happened. I don’t like secret stuff – leaves me queasy when these proposals start flying around. – based on many years of experience, seldom turns out good, but sometimes it does, sometimes completely backfires. And I have been involved with infiltrators who have done just that over the years – so I am careful.

      YOU, being Jeff, Kudnra, Neda, did the secret stuff, YOU need to make this turn out good on the up and up. One video and one article are not enough. Seems that should be easy – just put it out there. If you can’t take the heat of some questions that seems more suspicious. I’ll grant that maybe I have not made my request clear enough – see the end of this post. You say they are rumers, then provide Kudnras public protests against the Calico roundup on the net and we will let those that have other evidence put it side by side. Simple.

      If I don’t ask and get these answers, which in my mind are legit, then if the ___ hits the fan I am guilty too. Been there done that, and that’s ok, I survived. But we are talking about the horses and just cannot have anything tarnish the advocacy like that.

      At the very least we need to be able to back up a position and actions with legitimate provable “best intentions” – gotta have all the facts to do that.

      Anyway, this is too distracting from other work – it appears that BLM does not favor it anyway. I intend not ask again or involve myself in further discussion, unless I see what I think is whacko stuff. I’ll just be waiting for that “simple, black and white, without commentary or fluff, timeline, with links to evidence to back it up”, from EVERYONE.

      Like

      • Roxy,

        This is my last post on this subject.

        I have tried to give you factual information and be clear and precise and you have proceeded to twist words and invent scenarios involving me which are pure fiction. I will address those here for the record but I will not continue wasting our time going in ever more confusing circles.

        First, reread my posts. I never said anything about Jim Kudrna’s position on the roundups. Not a word. What I tried to communicate is that he has 500,000 acres and he is willing to forgo raising cattle and to use his land for a wild horse sanctuary that would be run by an experienced and respected wild horse person, Neda DeMayo, who has a decade of experience running a 300 acre sanctuary with 200 wild horses on it.

        You say “You need to disprove that Kudrna was in favor of these roundups though. Especially if he was publically, or secretly, in any way in favor of the removals before or during the Calico roundup” Excuse me, but I don’t have to prove anything. That fact is that Jim Kudrna has been on record referring to wild horses as “feral” and as “pests”. It is up to Jim to defend his past comments and stances. The fact is that NOW he is willing to let Neda run a wild horse sanctuary on his land. If there is a wild horse advocate out there that is willing to make the same offer – half million acres for the wild ones – lets take them up on it.

        Then you say:
        “You all did the secret stuff with BLM (I guess BLM?) during the roundup. Now YOU need to explain why – ”
        “YOU, being Jeff, Kudnra, Neda, did the secret stuff, YOU need to make this turn out good on the up and up. One video and one article are not enough. Seems that should be easy – just put it out there. If you can’t take the heat of some questions that seems more suspicious.”

        I’m sorry, but this makes no sense whatsoever. What are you talking about? Secret stuff? The only secret stuff I recall was your reference to a Cattoor/BLM money scam that I asked you to be specific about. The Neda/Jim plan is anything but secret. Jim and Neda’s first meeting is right there in the video on a national website. This is the kind of conspiracy nonsense that keeps the wild horse advocacy movement from advancing. Two people with a good idea can’t meet and discuss it without some uninformed person on the outside stirring up shit about it. How sad for those of us on the same side of this issue – the mustang’s side. If you don’t support the idea, don’t support it, but turning it into conspiracy theory.

        Right now there are really bad people that are buying up cheap horses at public auctions all over the country and sending them to the Canadian and Mexican borders to be shot and stabbed and turned into food. The video of this murder is on the web. This is real conspiracy with real bad guys making real money by stealing and killing horses, if you need to help the horses by digging up shit, go after the real deal and do some real good.

        I went on my first Cattoor roundup 20 years ago, I’ve been the guardian of rescued Nevada mustangs for almost a decade.

        Roxy, you sound very sincere and concerned about this issue and there are many organizations that would love to enlist your energy and enthusiasm for the benefit of the wild ones. I suggest you get involved with one of them and stop smearing people you don’t know regarding issues on which you are not fully informed.

        Again, this is my last post on this subject.

        good luck,

        jeff

        Like

      • Would Kidnra own the horses? Would he be able to send them to slaughter?

        Or “cull” “excess” horses by selling to killer buyers?

        Like

      • Roxy, been online for 2 days watching denver..need to stretch and get out of my depends..lol but will go back and find the stuff on Kudnra..didn’t save it i am sure- it was FMIO..he is a businessman period and took plenty of stands against the horses, written up in nevada papers..I am willing to let by gones be bygones but only if Neta is in charge of the horses…no budging on that fact

        Like

      • PS. Deep breaths, having one of R.T.s adult beverages. Tomorrow is another day.

        WE are in trying times on all fronts.

        Like

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