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1. There was a time that Matt wanted the use of PZP to replace the roundups. It did not work out that way. Others have hoped for this result also. But even so, the roundups continued to remove horses coupled with the use of PZP. Doing both to this small herd has taken these recently thriving wild horses down to a small breeding core. This beloved herd is being destroyed from within and now more is to be done on top of this!

   This over management to create zero population growth in the wild is insensitive to natural forces which will then create a negative population growth where foals will not be born to replace those horses who die of natural and other causes. Pryor wild horses are being stopped in their tracks and they have been in these mountains over 200 years and likely longer. They have no need of this interference and this dangerously low reproductive rate could be catastrophic if a very dire winter hits. They have in the past.

   Now we have a herd that is not safe on its own range. The horses need to be protected from this BLM invasion of their range and lives. mar

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2. aww god bless them and lets hope that they will be saved

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3. This is heartbreaking news.

   This is BLM retributian.

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4. Also, retaliation by the BLM allowed by President of the United States, Barack Obama, the Herod of our country… he wipes his hands and utters not a whisper.

   The multitude knows not what he is doing as the destructive machine continues.

   How dare you treat life and freedom as a sack of garbage and our wishes and what is right, as if nothing has importance except what your “cowboys” and corporations want.

   Leave the horses alone! Leave the Pryor Mountain horses alone!

   There are more important matters at hand to be dealt with, than to destroy what little natural beauty is left on this continent.

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5. Even though fundamentally and sanely, many of us believe in the circle of life (don’t mess with nature as nature has a way of equalizing what it needs to if undisturbed), we have to face that we live in a nation where we’ve come no further in a century and a half than we are now regarding our stewardship over creatures (remember when the US Government annialated the Native Americans’ horses the elders remembered “had always been there”? Remember millions of buffalo greedily slaughtered for a small amount of their body parts?

   I am almost 50 and cannot think of a time when the the wild horse not been abused, exploited, or suffered as a group in this country. I remember the song “Bless the Beasts and the Children”..”for in this world they have no voice, they have no choice”.

   I have come to believe where we are at now is that the wild horses will *not be left alone, because history repeats itself when the culture does not change. Maybe there is plenty of land for the wild horses, mules and burros, but it matters not. What matters is the culture we have to work in that says they cannot be there.

   I believe that one of our hopes could be some drastic changes in the non permanent birth control methods need to be made so some viable herds can remain free and so that in 2 decades, they WILL be more respected and appreciated due to the smaller populations~ not almost extinct.

   First, can someone please confirm if they are using *Native PZP or Spayvac (sometimes also referred to as PZP)? Or is it another type of reproductive control drug being referred to as PZP?

   If Native PZP were used, it is my understanding that even if it is administered at the needed intervals; as long as it is not done more than 6 consecutive seasons, then the mares still could reproduce. If this is true, how tragic that BLM would MISUSE it to keep NO mare (not some mares) in an already drastically culled herd from becoming pregnant in a given season?

   If above is true (or even partially true under certain conditions), not only has BLM not consistently used non permanent reproductive methods on horses over a period of time enough that they could remotely even be considered subject matter experts, but also *BLM”s continued to date poor documentation of population statistics, success rates, failure rates, adverse affects on mares and foals in cold or various altitudes)..just results in continued suffering of our horses on so many levels.

   Is BLM or Forest Service currently suggesting that any other *entire population of females* (prey and predator alike) such as deer, wolves, sheep, rabbits, cattle, birds, etc. be prevented from reproducing in any given season?? How can BLM even pose this argument, it makes sense at all!

   Had non permanent reproductive control methods been responsibly administered (and also documented) over a period of decades (way back to the 70’s when Native PZP was first available to BLM), maybe just maybe.. we might still have herds out there with diverse genetics needed to keep the herds viable for generations to come.

   Maybe then the Burns issue would have never came to pass due to the maintained lower populations resulting in non issue. I have to wonder if indeed there had been less populations in various wild herds over the past 50 years as a result of intentional and *responsible wildlife husbandry including non permanent reproductive control, (not roundups and removal!!!!) then maybe they might have been protected.

   I think the other larger herds had such a stigma attached to them that BLM came after herds like the Pryors when they may not have needed to. We may be able to help change and shape how the non permanent reproductive control is administered. If we could help change that, maybe we’d get some foothold on the long list of other things we might be able to help fix.

   Because of the culture, non permanent reproductive control and appropriate wildlife husbandry versus horrific roundups, untold carnage and suffering is the lesser of two potentially inevitable evils. The evidence of this is the undocumented >40,000 wild horses and burros that are in longterm holding facilities that we are not allowed to see, may or may not have been slaughtered, and for those like mine that was a revolving adoption horse until he found a new home with my family. I pray for the horses (free and incarcerated or now dead) and for all of us trying to somehow work *together* to try to help our horses so they can live in peace in the wild someday.

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6. I may have to say this a thousand times-There is NO overpopulation of wild horses-there is LIMITED need for birth control-there is no wild reproduction rates..The BLM has used the same words over and over when there were millions more horses and millions more acres..WAKE UP FOLKS..you are accepting what the BLM states as fact..It is not a FACT..it distracts citizens from recognising the BLM has-for decades-been robbing land from the wild horses..READ RMPs-read EAs-did they sell all that land? NO, much of it has been moved to the other side of the column-to cattle and mining and now energy-this is WH HMA land..they fenced off much of these HMAs into cattle ONLY allotments-and those are the most productive areas of grazing-the watersheds and riparian areas..the wild horses get the left over “crap land and water sources and even then there are more cattle than horses on that small bit left to them-We need to drop this BS of PZP because this is just what the BLM wants people to focus on-it means you donot recognise they have stolen the lands for the wild horses..reducing the land allows them to reset and lower AMLs-and those artificially created AMLs are how they are setting the limits for wild horses on HMAs..and in many cases they have so reduced the land they are zeroing out HMAs and removing all the horses

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   • A sidebar note to this..If they PZP all the pryor mares as they wish to do-in another 4 years they will reduce the AMLs for the pryors-and if any are still alive at that time..you can expect to see 10 token sterile horses left on the pryors…this is the proposition that was put forth in the 60s when they put the first fence up and tried to starve the pryors out by closing off their migratory grazing patterns-so they will starve them out if that fence does not come down..add all these factors up..and it is a rehash of the 60’s attempt of the BLM to kill off the Pryor horses-originally in the late 1800s there were 1,000 plus pryor horses. Hey-but just keep compromising until they are all gone..Study the history of the BLM and the wild horses-none of this is new.

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   • With Mar’s original post, I was thinking…has the BLM ever said that they want “zero population” growth? Essentially that is what they are doing. Now with Sandra’s post (as with Mar’s stating the same issues in different ways)…there is no overpopulation. There is reckless management and expenditures for torture because they AIN’T managin’ anything. They are exterminating wild equines for special interest and as a ruse.

     I hope you are reading this wild equine killers because your days are numbered…you won’t have the wild equines to bash around much longer as you are in the process of unemploying yourselves….unless you’re goin’ after real livestock next. You reading NCBA????? You are NEXT!

     Thanks for the science sandra. It is always lost on the killers.

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     • We do talk about all this over and over and yet when it is said just so… it jumps out at people and they realize what an action is doing and what it is meant to do…

       BLM is constantly going after population and where it is heading and how they will control that. They do want to stop reproduction. That is zero population growth. They take nothing into account so with nature you get a deficit… negative population growth.

       If BLM can screw up reproduction indefinitely they will will not mind. mar

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   • Not long ago, Ginger Kathryns documented that, out of something like 8 or 9 foals born in one area, ALL BUT 1 were killed by mountain lions. I don’t remember whether the remaining foal lived through or past its first year. Anyone?
     My point being … Sandra is right on target! There is no over-population, because contrary to what the BLM and other government dentities say, there ARE predators and they take out many horses (especially foals) every year. Zapping mares with PZP ensures that no foals are born.
     So between senseless round ups and deaths from predation, natural disasters, injuries, and simply old age, our herds are disappearing — and if all of that doesn’t wipe them out, we need to be concerned now about inbreeding, which may already be happening in some areas where not all mares are PZP’ed.

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     • With a few different opinions (not differing from the end result…no wild equines repopulating)….YEP!!!!!!

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7. Sad and sorry news. These drugs are desperate destructive means, not a plus for the horses. Why is it always the lesser of evils with us. The hard rain is falling.

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8. Click onto AMERICAN HERDS and read the most recent post, “The Fudge Factor”. There you will see how BLM skews the numbers in the population counts. Be warned first–you have to be wearing your thinking cap.

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9. My comments are not based on BLM methodology. BLM has not been consistent nor is there longevity in their use of reproductive control. They don’t have anything to do with my opinion.

   That said, let’s suppose that all live and dead wild horses, those that have been captured, injured, murdered, slaughtered and even adopted horses like mine were running wild again, living and dying on what we all literally know is THEIR land, and those animals were allowed to reproduce and maintain a population that does not exceed the land and resources that they were origanally given to roam on. And one more thing, they were protected from abuse and exploitation like they are supposed to be. We thought the Wild Horse and Burro Protection Acts~and above scenareo is their birthright, correct? Of course it was. We just wanted them to be left alone in nature.

   However, we all know that an animal collector has too many animals to take care of and the animals suffer. This country does *not have enough law enforcement to *prevent harm to our wild horses we do have, nor A SYSTEM THAT PROTECTS THEM, let alone the resulting population we would have had in the above scenareo with the original protection acts well in place and part of our culture 4 decades ago. Of course they should be protected, but they have not been.

   Whether we’re all or any combination of realists, moralists, or idealists, we can hang our hat on the same hook that regardless of what the public “thinks”, the government always has and will do what THEY decide they are going to do. The government and political circles and those that make things happen says there is too many on the land regardless of any reality.

   As a result we have thousands of horses that have been murdered or have suffered, including mine that I love dearly. If these things are happening in that sense there ARE *too many* to protect and prevent suffering. Now if this is a pattern say 40 or so years after the original protection acts, then non permanent reproductive control could have prevented this suffering, given that the culture has not changed much with regard to the wild horses and burros.

   If anyone can give these horses back their birthright, there will be no need for non permanent reproductive birth control!!!!! If they can’t and so far they have not been able to then, yes, it IS needed to prevent the disgrace of the past century where in excess of 50,000 horses captured, held in corrals, had their freeze brand dyed and run through slaughter, poisoned, run down and beaten, caught in cattle guards, trampled in trailers, hit by helicopters, restricted from getting food or water in pipe corrals or with fence and uncrossable cattle guards.. when they ALL were supposed to be protected whether running wild or captured.

   Had birth control been used on my mustang’s dam, I might not have not known him, but again he’d be one less that suffered the ultimate loss~that of freedom. At least he did not die a horrific death like Blue Moon.

   We all want them to roam on the huge parcels of land alloted to them in peace without harm and be able to reproduce as nature intended, undisturbed. That is their birthright. However we must work together to accept what we CANNOT change, to change what we can, and have the the wisdom to know the difference.

   But while you, me we all are figuring that all out, the horses have been reproducing and have been suffering in masses!! Had non permanent birth control been used, some of that suffering would have never happenend.

   *Respectfully* as we should all be talking to each other here, I hope it is clear that I am awake and do not feel that there is overpopulation, nor do I follow what BLM says.

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   • There is nothing we CANNOT change..In a democracy we have to power to speak out and the power to vote..It requires work -it requires commitment-and is not for the weak of heart or spirit -, Wild Horse Annie would have been the weakest among us-in the 50’s- a WOMAN, with no money and no power, crippled and disfigured-hardly the poster child for “change”-there were no “laws” you could demand enforcement from..The idea that this generation would insult what this woman accomplished by giving in- in a sniveling puddle of “we cannot stand to watch the roundups-so we are going to let you PZP them into extinction” is disgusting..get a backbone-and then get on with the fight!

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10. I just want to say that it is not the culture that is deciding the direction of the wild horse and burro program. We are part of the culture, and we are not advancing the current policies. The person most responsible for what is happening to wild horses and burros today is Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar. He is the one advising President Obama that wild horses do not belong in the West. There is little, if any, evidence that the President is concerned about the welfare of wild life or even life in general. Ideas and words—yes, but living, breathing, feeling creatures—I am still waiting…waiting…waiting…

    Given that BLM manages over 250 million acres in the West, 24 million for America’s wild horses does not seem like a lot of ask for, particularly, given that these 24 million acres do not mean that the wild horse is the exclusive grazer, but only the primary grazer.

    The 1971 Wild and Free Roaming Horse and Burro Act has been amended as we know giving the Secretary broad discretionary powers. That said, the law also uses the word “shall” in many places directing that the Secretary should be using scientific resources to gather information on managing the public lands to maintain a balance. We know that this is not happening; therefore, we know that DOI/BLM/ and DA/FS are not being compliant with the law.

    I suggest that in addition to taking the steps listed above that we report every instance of failing to comply with the 1971 Wild and Free Roaming Horse and Burro Act on the basis of performing the type of scientific information gathering required by the law to the DOI’s Inspector General, and then follow up. From there, report these egregious violations to the GAO. These are the avenues that Congress has provided for citizens to report abuse, mismanagement, fraud, etc. Any of us can file these reports, but there are parts of the report that have to do with what you have witnessed, and if you would be willing to be a witness before Congress if needed. These are action steps that we can take, but they require that we are knowledgable about specifics.

    God bless you, each and every one. And thank you, R. T., for giving us a place for our voices for our horses.

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11. The culture of a government allowing all of this, no matter who has been president or advising the president over the past 4 decades is what I was referring to. It really scares me that government can just decide it is ok for some to continue to not follow laws. It is disturbing that the records and information BLM has given continually has not been more carefully verified as accurate and correct, and that BLM has not been made accountable to provide accurate records.

    We had a livestock and small animal case with several parallel issues but on a much smaller scale out here in my area that Animal Welfare Institute took to the State Capital. We had pictures, documentation and even copies of Public Records that we saw had later been removed from the city database where the problems had occurred. And the formal Animal Control reports pertaining to animal removal, disposal, burial or other licensing and zoning records were not accurate. Still no changes because the culture of the overseeing authorities had not changed. There was big money involved with a very affluent local bank in the area being owned by a relative of the individual perpetrating the acts against the animals. We were threatened by the police dept that if he did something to us that they would not be able to help us, and they let the case with regard to zoning and animal welfare issues just fizzle out. I drive by there and still see same problems I did 7 years ago.
    Local news wouldn’t touch it, either. The complacency of those that should be upholding the law is disturbing.

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12. But there is another way to look at it. It may sound trite, but it is so very true that evil can only triumph if good men do nothing.

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13. There isn’t even a choice here. We MUST fight this, on all fronts.

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14. In one article I read, the BLM moved horses because they thought they were not going to survive a winter… this was clearly some time ago! Why? Let nature take it’s course, if there isn’t food then they die or move on, they are supposed to be wild aren’t they? Now, there is a complete turn around and they are trying to get rid of every last one of them.
    In another article I read, someone from the BLM said something along the lines of ‘if we don’t round up horses what will we do?’. Well, if you keep rounding up wild horses and messing with Mother Nature, they won’t have any horses to round up anyway. So currently you’re doing yourself out of a job!! Or, once they are gone, will they pick on something else to systematically destroy?

    We are supposed to be the intelligent ones at the top of the food chain.. why are we so slow to learn to leave well alone and live along side nature instead of destroying it for our own financial wants.

    Perhaps we should use PZP on a few humans and stop them from reproducing!

    This is does have the world watching, thanks to facebook and other places where things like this can reach a wider audience. I always email and write to whoever it listed if I can, not sure if they care what I think since I’m the other side of the world but it’s one more person objecting to their god interfering antics.

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15. But, he saved two turkeys! Birds of a feather….

    This oppression, avoidance, disrespect, unlawfulness and absence of humaneness, has made me very bitter.

    The feeling of helplessness is not comfortable.

    Our voices have been falling on deaf ears, what can we say in our letters that will cause them to be read and for those in charge, to hear what is being said?

    Can advocates deliver everyone’s letters personally to this office with media coverage???? Mega-media coverage???
    (In conjunction with copies in the form of faxes that are already being done?)

    WHAT will make a difference?! We have to find the key!

    More peaceful spectacles!?

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    • Obama just declaired (yesterday I think) over 150 square miles as polarbear area off limits to drilling.

      Yet he doesn’t seem to understand (or care) that horses are native to only north america, improve the lands and are loved by so many Americans.

      Why doesn’t Obama go tell the BLM and the horse eaters to go clean-up the Asian carp infesting our water and the giant pythons infesting florida. Thats tons of FOOD the horse eaters can sell off. They can satisfy their animal round-up lust on carp and giant snakes.

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      • actually I was wrong about the 150 square miles for polar bears it is many more miles.
        “” The Obama administration is setting aside 187,000 square miles in Alaska as a “critical habitat” for polar bears,”””””

        Obama won’t even stop a fence that will cut off graze for Clouds herd!!

        ref article
        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/24/offshore-drilling-potenti_n_788212.html

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      • But space was already set aside in the set aside called Alaska/Artic National Wildlife something or other. Maybe they (polar and other wildlife) need more, which I believe.

        Bottom line is that Obama with his “concensus” crap is making this world’s situation worse. Maybe we need someone to fall on a sword in the proverbial sense.

        Because it’s only going to get worse in January. Maybe this all about 2012. But please DO something, SOMETHING SIR! Even your healthcare is doomed come January.

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16. We are fighting against corruption that has been entrenched for at least 40 years, probably more. Most of us that have come into this battle have only been involved in it for a year. There are some, the veterans, who have spent a lifetime fighting, but they haven’t had much help before now. It is, for certain, not for the faint of heart. It is gut-wrenching, discouraging, and it should make every red-blooded American’s blood boil. All the more reason to dig our heels in and stay the course. Keep learning all that you can, keep educating everyone that you can, and keep on doing what we have been doing. Look at the countries that are represented by the signatures on the various petitions. The world IS watching.

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    • Louie…George Washington battled corruption.

      It is the timeless companion of the history of Man.

      Doesn’t mean we give up.

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17. And HSUS’s comments are what? Afterall, if they really care, shouldn’t they be outraged at this destruction? Again, field data is showing that mares and foals are dying miserable deaths because of the mess that is birth control, out of season matings and foaling and NOT INTENDED by the original project. But maybe somebody has stated the obvious already.

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    • I have come to the conclusion-we need to have an all out attack against the HSUS-boycotts protests and national petitions..they have the license to issue PZP the BLM does not- cut off the head of the Drug Cartel (USHS) and you cut off the PZP..We need to quit wasting our time asking for a moritorium-we need to create one..HSUS relys on the ‘goodwill” and donations from the american public..I personally have come to see them as just an other top heavy bloated lazy psydo-arm of the government..they have become a shadow of what they were-there are citizen organizations smaller and more effective in helping all the animals..The humane society is a domestic animal spay neuter-kill and adopt org. they have NO business involving themselves in wildlife issues which is what the WHs are-they seem to think that wildlife should be managed as domestic animals are-which shows the depth of their ignorance

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      • We do keep coming back to HSUS and I think they have not been able to move because of their PZP ties which create a conflict of interest. But if the horses are not reproducing there will be no future horses… they need to back down gracefully, ha!, and allow that the horses need to be saved from further roundups now… first and foremost. The administration of PZP needs to be addressed to HSUS directly. They need to side with the public on this or continue to garner the wrath of the wild horse community that feels they have failed the wild ones already.

        Yes, we keep coming back to HSUS and the PZP issue. So we should address them on it again. A new viewpoint; stop selling it until after a moratorium and study have been done. HSUS should be asking for the mratorium and denying PZP at the same time! mar

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      • Consider this: What if the HSUS offered to step in and PZP -ALL polar bears-as the solution to them becoming extinct/endangered??? After all-their habitat will no longer support them, so rather than have them ALL die off-lets make sure there is enough habitat for a few by PZPing them..NOW-does that make ANY sense to you??? That is not a solution-it is a mirage- a bandaid on a cut jugular..

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      • Okay, what would be the best way to get the word out to tell the HSUS no more contributions until they tell BLM no more PZP until AFTER a moratorium and accurate counts of how many horses are actually on the ranges?

        What would be the best way to go for max publicity? I think there would be a lot of support for this if people only knew about it.

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      • Louie said a post card campaign? But we need to consolidate the latest in urgent matters and put them all behind a total campaign to carry us to New Years. A Big Push to contact all and more. mar

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18. Go to AMERICAN HERDS and pull up these documents. You will see how this has all been planned:

    HOW TO KILL A MUSTANG! DOCUMENTS REVEAL BLM PLANS TO DESTROY WILD HORSES!

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19. ……and when you get done reading the uncovered documents, read this. You can find it on AMERICAN HERDS, as well. Homework for the week-end. There will be a test on Monday:

    PEER REPORT
    HORSES TO SLAUGHTER:
    ANATOMY OF A COVER UP WITHIN
    THE WH&B PROGRAM OF THE
    BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT

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    • I have read those reports you list, Louie, and I agree – they are as powerful and shocking as you indicate. They are a serious read, but well worth it.

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20. BLM’s agenda seems to be modeled after the methodology regarding capture, removals, abuse and starving out to take the land away from the Native American who rightfully were entitled to their land~just like the horses and burros. This is all very disturbing.

    Regarding the polar bear analogy, if >40,000 bears were encarcerated and had to endure the holocaust-like atrocitities and exploitation that the captured and *to be captured* wild horses have and will have to endure in the coming months and years, then yes I would absolutely support a responsibly administered non permanent reproduction control so that some of those bears currently in the wild could remain there with their regular birth cyles to perpetuate an annual population replacement of genetically diverse and viable offspring in the land alloted for them to live on.

    That is something that may have to come to pass, even given the additional land they may have been allocated, due to the very nature of the climatic changes we have very little control of. This is something that may need to be explored in our lifetime in order to save them in the wild.

    However I would still have the same questions and concens regarding PZP (in my original post) if those managing them were using the polar bear equivalent of *Native PZP or Spayvac (sometimes also referred to as PZP), or some other type of reproductive control drug being used. I certainly would.

    Too bad those that may have hunted the horse to extinction in the past *and present did not do that. That is if climatic changes did not wipe them out. Who knows how long the Native Americans had interacted with the horse sometimes called an “Aboriginal Horse” they remembered had “always been there”? What would have happened if the last of those horses had not been annialated by our US Government over a century ago? The physical genotype characteristics and DNA of their descendants might have held clues to the horses’ past on the North American Continent, and may have lent more clues to the confilict of the last several years about whether or not the current genus of horse is indeed wildlife.

    I for one do not feel the Pryors should have ever been disturbed and this whole thing is an awful mess. But again I say change what we can within our government, accept what we cannot, and have the wisdom to know the difference.

    RT’s Thankgiving message said it all. We need to speak out, to exchange ideas and peacefully work together to find whatever solutions we do have the ability to reach or implement in our lifetime to help the horses. That always takes back bone no matter what the issue, but attacking people on here does not.

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    • WOW, seriously-that is how ypou would rationalize giving polar bears PZP? what- you own stock in the company? OK, lets go with human overpopulation which creates the problems in the animal kingdom..shall we start with you and your family?

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21. You all please send in your comments . If you are sending them by snail mail you’d better do it tomorrow. Also certified mail is a good idea IMO. Most all of these mares were treated with PZP-22 in Sept. of 2009 which prevents pregnancy for 2 years so why are these mares being treated again in 2011? No long time study has been done on this new type of PZP . THe mares over 10 that will receive the regular PZP for 5 consecutive years will be permanently sterilized . With the AML and gene pool already so low if there is a natural disaster or disease that kills off a lot of these horses some of those mares may be needed to reproduce. THis plan is just more messing up Mother Nature and people playing God.

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22. Sure Sandra, let’s start with my family. The children I have raised are not biologically mine and needed a mom to raise them. The non human members of my family currently include seven unwanted animals that all needed homes and my husband and I gave them a very good one, including a BLM horse. All of their care, medicine and food are funded by us as good honest, hard working people that don’t own stock in the company that produces PZP.

    In the past there were other animals that needed daily medication or had special needs that either have passed on after finally living a dignified life; or we found a suitable home for them, including equines, canines, and felines.

    Although I have raised puppies or helped care for other young animals, including foals, orphaned calfs and even various species in the baby animal nursery at the zoo, I have never bred an animal of any species or allowed them to breed, thus preventing repopulation to ad to an already serious epidemic of unwanted domestic animals. I support and comply with *permanent reproductive control of spaying and neutering in domestic animals. That said, I have also donated my time and money to the rescue, care and adoption efforts of horses and small animals.

    So in regards to our family, we have not caused overpopulation, but rather have continued to absorb it and care for those affected by it.***

    I am a proponent of non permanent reproductive control methods when needed with ***wildlife*** (not just Native PZP). Regarding non permanent reproductive methods besides Native PZP, (not to be confused with Spayvac), there is information at various sites regarding other approaches, including applications with wild herds around the world as well as with other species.

    Regarding the valid concern of out of season foaling: It is important to realize that out of season foalings (even in cooler climates) sometimes happen in nature without the use of any reproductive control method whatsoever. Clearly BLM is misusing this particular type of PZP, which may have caused them in the Pryors, as well as horrible future implications with all mares getting PZP in a given season in an already culled herd.

    It is unclear how HSUS is overseeing BLM’s protocols in order to make appropriate improvements. **At the end** of the below referenced document, which is very informative is a large list of References that could be contacted regarding these concerns. Some of those folks could possibly help provide expertise to support the concerns regarding BLM’S intent and misuse of PZP in this and other herds.

    Since folks on here are trying to stategize an effort in order to help our wild horses, this might be a good angle to start with (instead of lashing out) at people that care about his issue and other animals as much or possibly more than you do.

    http://www.wildhorsepreservation.org/pdf/pzp_report.pdf
    ref :Immunocontraceptive Reproductive Control. Utilizing Porcine Zona Pellucida (PZP)

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    • Here is a link to Dr. Jay Kirkpatricks presentation on PZP which he developed and makes. PZP is not made by a corporation but instead a non-profit. I believe that we as Advocates have to listen and acknowledge scientific studies concerning our wild horses and that being said Dr.Kirkpatrick has helped the Assateague Island Maryland horses survive and thrive. They have never been removed from the island–no helicopter has harassed them, each mare has contributed to the gene pool and the mares are living longer.

      The problem as I see it is that PZP in the “hands” of the BLM with their inacurate numbers, will genetically bankrupt the wild horse herds and reduce the herd numbers to the point that they will not survive a severe winter or disease.

      As to out of season foals Dr.Kirkpatrick addresses this in the presentation. He being a scientist, bases his facts on scientifc studies, not casual observations. The Virginia herd of Chincoteague ponies(south Assateague Island) that has never been PZPed had 2 foals this fall. What can you say about that? Again Advocates have to be careful not to jump to conclusions that cannot be proven scientifically. ( I guess this attitude comes from being around scientists all my life even though I was an “art major”lol)

      After saying all of this I do not think the Pryor Mt. Herd needs to be constantly treated and rounded up and will send a statement as to such.

      Here is the link to Dr.Kirkpatrick’s presentation. It was made in Billings to the Pryors Wild group and is 77 minutes long. Listen to all of it–including the question and answer period.
      http://www.mywyoming.org/video/1y8d9ofce8

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23. We can also send our comments to Cloud Foundation and they will fax?

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24. Sent a fax via your email provided and sent the fax again via the free fax service. Keeping my fingers crossed.

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25. “Here is a link to Dr. Jay Kirkpatricks presentation on PZP which he developed and makes. PZP is not made by a corporation but instead a non-profit”

    Interesting and thank you Barbara for your post.

    I think we all need to find out exactly who is behind the manufacturing of PZP. Since Barbara states a non-profit. Someone is making huge profits???

    How is the HSUS involved with this??

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    • Hi Marge,
      View the Kirkpatrick link and he explains how his group operates.
      Here is a link to the HSUS information on their work with PZP and wild horses–
      https://cmsadmin30.convio.net/preview!www.humanesociety.org/issues/wild_horses/facts/hsus_wild_horse_management.html?authToken=aefe495dff77c64cac53daaf6129cbae640037bd

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26. Frequently asked questions

    The HSUS has been conducting wildlife contraception research for over 20 years and is confident that PZP is a valuable tool for the humane and efficient management of wild horses. We understand that, as with any new technology, those advocating for animals may be skeptical or concerned that PZP may have unintended consequences and The HSUS welcomes questions, observations and information regarding PZP. The following questions and concerns have recently been brought to our attention:

    1. Is The HSUS required to approve the use of PZP prior to the BLM using it in wild horse herds?
    Yes. Because The HSUS holds the Investigational New Animal Drug(INAD) exemption for PZP, we are required by law to approve the use of PZP on all wild horse herds

    2. Does The HSUS profit from the use of PZP?
    The HSUS and the Science and Conservation Center (SCC, the nonprofit organization that produces the drug) provides PZP at or below cost to our collaborators. Neither The HSUS nor the SCC profit from the use and sale of PZP.

    3. Some claim that 75% of wild horse herds are not large enough to meet the minimum genetic viability requirements (i.e. 150–200 adult animals).
    How can The HSUS justify using PZP to manage these herds?
    The estimate of 150–200 adult animals for genetic viability is derived from theoretical models that do not incorporate data from actual wild horse herds. These models assume, moreover, that there is absolutely no movement of horses into the herds. This is simply not true for many wild horse herds, which habitually exchange members with adjacent herds.

    In response to question number 2: I do not believe for one minute that the HSUS sells anything at or below cost.

    The only reason HSUS is even involved with the Wild Horses is to make as much money from them as possible.

    Something stinks big time here!!!

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27. Why hasn’t the HSUS quit providing PZP when the BLM has broken the MOU which said the BLM was to decrease roundups when PZP is being used ?? It must be the money like Marge said. Could the HSUS sue the BLM for breaking the MOU or is this that binding??

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    • This is something we need to find out about. If BLM misuses the PZP or any other BC method in order to cause sterility in mares then HSUS has an obligation to withhold it. If we are unable to prove this misuse it is because we are not allowed to observe.

      When advocates have been able to be present they have helped horses and helped BLM to negotiate mistakes and problems that have been hurtful to horses. I see these two work together and know it for the betterment of all. Too bad we do not exist with this kind of relationship openly and ongoing. mar

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28. Where there is money to be made you can bet the HSUS will not quit.

    According to one report ( Kathrens??) PZP causes instability in the harems—the mares do not conceive– and the stallions are always fighting–leading to disorder in the herds, and more frequent events of injury to the stallions involved– and debilitation due to stress. I do not trust HSUS or BLM or Obama on any of this.

    I notice the stallion issue was not addressed in the report.

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    • Hi Marge, for those that have not yet read it, the writing:
      “Immunocontraceptive Reproductive Control. Utilizing Porcine Zona Pellucida (PZP)”
      found at http://www.wildhorsepreservation.org/pdf/pzp_report.pdf, is authored in part by Dr. Jay Kirkpatrick.

      It contains information addressing herd behavior based on multiple herd reports, not just one report about the Pryor Herd.

      Additionally, Dr. Kirkpatrick’s writing also details specific information about the manufacturer of PZP, including it’s tax status, HSUS’s involvement and much more information about PZP variations, how it is administered, etc. There are also many references to applications in various wild herds, including BLM herds and others including Assateague Island Maryland Horses.

      When Barb expressed “The problem as I see it is that PZP in the “hands” of the BLM with their inacurate numbers”, she hit the nail right on the head. There seem to be continued holes in BLM’s statisitcs and documentation, and the numbers of mares in a given herd they are administering types of PZP to, in relation to the herd population itself has drastically varied from herd to herd, when other pertinent environmental factors including seasonal food supply or stress of winter and draught are taken into account .

      For example, in the article found at: billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/wy, BLM claimed they would capture over 1900 horses earlier this year and release 100 mares back into the wild, leaving more than 860 horses to remain in the herd. Whereas with the the Pryors, they are wanting to PZP all mares in a very small herd. Even if BLM attempted to use the percentage argument of PZP’d mares versus total herd population, their argument would be weak and illogical due to other environmental factors such as the affects of winter that Barb mentioned would kill them out.

      This is but one example of why it is not PZP that is bad in itself~ or further that the people that developed it are horrible. To the contrary, some involved with it and other non permanent reproductive control methods have (with passion) spent a large part of their life trying to find ways to help wild herds in responsible ways, while disrupting what would naturally occur in the herd *as little as possible.

      If HSUS is not managing BLM’s misuse of PZP, I agree pressure should be put on them until they do, unless the herd management piece can be delegated to some other group that is better qualified.

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    • I agree with you Marge !! It does cause instability in the Stallions, not that i am for PZP but I think that used properly it would help, but the BLM cannot be trusted in the administering of it because they double dose and all kinds of stupid stuff…………………….. If they are going to give PZP why not have someone who knows and cares what the Hell they are doing !!!!! But bottom line again is FREE the Wild Mustangs…………………….. Mother Nature will Handle the Balance she is very Precise in her Job……. She needs no help !!!!! And she knows what shes doing !!!!!

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29. There are good uses for PZP one year by dart. But the abuse seems to be the two year under the skin method BLM needs to roundup mares to administer to.

    Management has been doing as it pleases to the extreme and the results are not in yet. But we know there needs to be an end to all this mismanagement and speculation. The wild herds need dependable concern and their best health and the future taken into account. It has not been that way at all. This unnatural treatment and these goals to wipe them out must be ended. BLM must back off. mar

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30. The Wild Horse and Burro program goes beyond “mismanagement”. The program is corrupt and its activities are criminal. If we don’t speak out against it, we, in a way, condone it. The abuses are very serious and the flagrant disregard for Constitutional rights, the horrendous animal abuse and the obscene expenditure of tax money cannot be ignored. Wild Horse Annie took this battle as far as she could. It is now our battle.

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31. One thing is for certain– things will not get any better for the Wild Horses and Burros if we DON’T fight for them.

    AWHPC maintains that reform of the program must address three fundamental problems:

    Lack of science, including accurate census and range monitoring data, to guide the program.
    Arbitrarily low allowable population levels for wild horses and burros, which BLM sets for the benefit of commercial interests, including ranchers who graze livestock on public lands at bargain basement rates.
    The loss of over 20 million acres of federally-designated wild horse and burro habitat, which BLM has “zeroed out” for these species over the past four decades.

    Wild horses comprise a small fraction of grazing animals on public lands, where they are outnumbered by livestock nearly 50 to 1. The BLM has recently increased cattle grazing allotments in areas where wild horses are being removed. Livestock grazing is authorized on 160 million acres of BLM land, while wild horses are restricted to just 26 million acres, which they must share with livestock.

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32. Horses are born with two basic drives—the first is to eat and the second is to reproduce. I had not realized how powerful the second was until my six year-old Quarab mare experienced the birth of a foal in the stall behind hers last March. It coincided with a heat cycle. All I can say is that she was simply wild. She was highly animated and could not be stilled. I took her out to lunge her and she reared up—the only time she has ever done this before or since. She pranced, neighed, snorted, stomped. I took her to the round pen and turned her loose—eventually, she calmed down, and I rode her carefully for a while. When I talked to the vet about her behaviour a couple of days later, he told me that the birth of the foal had likely awakened very profound and powerful forces within her related to her own desire to have a foal. To this day, when approaching the foal, now nine months old, she will stop when approaching the pasture or paddock. While other horses will walk up to the fence and nuzzle the foal, she seems afraid.

    I relate this story as a way of passing on the powerful longing the mares have to become mothers, particularly during their heat cycles. After watching this display in my little mare, I can imagine mares in the wild being so determined to have their own babies that they would readily abandon a stallion when they did not conceive.

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33. Have a Huge Question ! In Sugarcreek, ohio in 2009 Leroy Baker owner of Sugarcreek Auction was fine by the USDA for cruelty to Horses….His fine was $162,800.00 which was to be paid by Feb 2009 i am trying to fine out if it was ever paid and if not why is this Auction not closed down???? So far I cannot find if he ever paid it ????????? If anyone knows or can help me find out I would Appreciate it, there are or were lots of criminal activities related to this man and all who work with him …………….against the horses he auction off he usually buys them him self then transports them to Canada for Slaughter……

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34. From what I read a week ago he had not paid it.

    Check http://fuglyblog.com/ or Alex Brown racing.

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35. Darn went to both sites without finding anything !!!!!

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36. Thanks to Barbara Steele for the link to Dr. Kirkpatrick’s talk on PZP. I was under the impression that there was very little information on the use of PZP in the wild, so it is helpful to know that there has been some excellent work done. I saw that Barbara had added some additional links, so I will go to them as well.

    I saw the piece in the Huff Post about the President declaring the polar bear an iconic animal. Now I have nothing against polar bears, and I am glad to see that we are trying to maintain a habitat for them. However, with one stroke of his pen, he declared the polar bear as a symbol of the green energy movement which is directly related to his previous position as a founding member of the Chicago Energy Exchange might not have the right name for this organization, but the first word is Chicago, and this is where the idea was hatched to put a tax on corporations that exceeded their energy allotments.

    The wild and free roaming horses are symbolic of our pioneering spirit, our indominable can do spirit, and freedom itself. It is no small irony that when horses were the mode of transportation, a tool for the farmer who could both plow and fertilize the lands, we did not have to worry about being dependent on fossil fuels. I’m not suggesting that we go back to that time, but horses were the original “green” animal. Not only that, but unlike solar panels and wind turbines, they add aesthetic value to the landscape.

    I know it is just a result of my twisted sense of humor, but if people had to ride a horse to work, it would bring back livery stables, and put more people to work. Green jobs galore.

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37. Sunday, November 28, 2010 from Laura Leigh’s blog

    Dear Pilot Mountain HMA Observers & Interested Parties: Effective
    immediately, Terri Knutson, BLM-Stillwater Field Office Manager, has
    cancelled further gather operations of the Pilot Mountain HMA Gather.

    The gather contractor conducted an aerial reconnaissance over the area
    Saturday and found fewer wild horses in the HMA than predicted. Based on
    this reconnaissance and ground observations by BLM staff, and the feeling
    that our HMA census data had been inadvertently interpreted as having
    included the 104 wild horses currently residing outside the HMA on the
    Hawthorne Army Depot, Terri decided to cancel further operations and
    release the contractor.

    A new aerial population census flight will be scheduled by BLM in the
    future to accurately determine if current population numbers of horses
    within the HMA are within the Appropriate Management Level.

    The nine horses that were held overnight at the temporary corrals were
    released this morning without the mares being treated with PZP. The gather
    contractor is removing the temporary corrals and Saturday’s trap site.

    With the termination of further gather operations the planned
    guided-observation days on November 30-December 1 are also cancelled.

    The Wild Horse Gather Information Line will updated for the final time
    today for the Pilot Mountain Gather.

    Thank you for your continued interest in the gathers on our District. I
    will keep you all on my interested observers list and get back in touch
    with you as the scheduled catch/treat/release gather in the Clan Alpine HMA
    approaches in February.

    Mark Struble
    Public Affairs Officer
    BLM-Carson City District Office

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38. I’m reading & commenting on this a little late, but purposely so. I hope all of you had a wonderful Thanksgiving, I only wish America’s wild horses had the chance to have any wonderful day! I’m writing full of anger because I don’t know how else to feel, WHY can’t they/BLM, leave even one herd of wild horses alone, especially, what’s probably the most famous wild horses in the world, Cloud’s family!!!!?? What’s even got me angrier, is HOW can the world let “them” get away with destroying what’s left of the Pryor Mountain Mustangs!!?? By the time they’re done either rounding the horses up, sterilizing them, removing them….there will be nothing left but the memories, Cloud’s legacy will be completely gone, destroyed forever! Where are all the supporters, the advocates, the Cloud Foundation, the other wild horse rescue foundations/organizations?? Is everyone taking a vacation?? I’m sorry, but all this is making me feel very upset & sick to my stomach! HOW on God’s earth can we allow this crap to continue? I think all the legal stuff is ok, but, it takes way too long, &, it’s WAY past time that ALL of us need to get together & take ACTION on behalf of OUR wild horses, OUR heritage, OUR history!!!! By the time any laws are enforced or whatever, it will be too late for all the horses that have already died, been severely traumatized, & removed forever from their ranges. There HAS to be another way to stop those hateful idiots!!

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    • Valerie, Try to find us funds. Anyone out there could be asking Horse Industry companies and grantors about helping. Funds are desperately needed across the board. It is the average American who is responding to this crisis and we are all struggling to be somewhat normal, but that is very hard now a days. We have all been knocked down an economic level or two.

      With funding many things could be done from having people staying in DC and talking to reps daily to equipment and gas money for the field work and roundups we are facing right now. With an influx of funds we could do a great deal more and this would get the Action we need to see taken on all fronts.

      I am very serious here. Over this winter we must have some strong opposition in place and people out working the roundups and all the other possible activities revved up. We must end this because it has become hugely wasteful to the tax payer and harmful to all our horses, captive and wild. This is the dying throes of a program BLM and private industry are trying to shut down, not to mention the rest of DOI and Ken Salazar who have marked the wild herds for extinction and have said as much.

      We know what BLM is doing and they still lie and still mislead and it has made no sense now for the past few years. We can show clearly the direction of this ‘management’ to anyone who will listen. Help us get funds… please. We sure could use the support and it will bring us up to par, too. mar

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39. We Here are all traumatized, we all are sickened also, we have great people here working day in a day out on how to Save our precious Wild Mustangs , we get mad , we get sad , we are sickened but we keep trying, Nothing can stop us from Saving the Wild Mustangs, There are people here in the field , they have only the road a few things to help them, they report ,take Photos, quite frankly they have very little , to sustain themselves , the are dedicated to the Wild mustang and his preservation and survival , the ones that cannot join them in the field try in other ways to bring Freedom back to The Wild Mustangs , everyday I feel we are getting closer, there are also set backs to endure (but they are nothing compared to the suffering of the Mustang),we are relentless in our pursuit to restore the Freedom for the Wild Mustangs , we are open for any help that anyone can offer, to stop the suffering of the Mustang….. we get discouraged plenty but they are worth every ounce of our power to save them………………………If everyone could take the time to study the Mustang and there contributions to us there would not be a Freedom problem for them………Those of us who understand them know how very precious their lives are …………..There assaults are involved by people who are greedy ……….. and have no reason or common sense…. If you cant do anything else Please make phone calls , write letters …………….make donations they are used very wisely for the Mustangs………………… Ideas also are helpful we will find the answer …….

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40. Can someone please post where to donate funds?

    I know about Cloud and Grassroots.

    Thank you, Marge

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    • To the right, on the sidebar here, we have our logo (HfH Advisory Council) where you can donate to our Wild Horse legal fund as we are still in a court battle over saving the West Douglas herd and are working behind the scenes on our New York case…even though we are not publishing news about our efforts the legal bills continue to flow in on a monthly basis and it’s pretty painful. Every single cent goes to pay those bills.

      Likewise there is a radio button for our friends over to Grass Roots Horse.

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41. Ok I opened the link donate to WH Legal Fund.

    I do not see how you donate. There is no mention of “Donate”

    We need a page in one central place that allows folks to donate either via Pay Pal or a central address for checks etc.

    I would like to do up a press release for some of the publications in my area and what I need is a press release that drives home to the Tax Paper the cost of maintaining the horses and burros along with the special interests etc.

    R.T. I would like to discuss this more so please email me.

    My deadline is the 15th of this month.

    Marge

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42. These are great ideas, but which is needing donations the most urgently? In other words, I know they are ALL important, but, for the average person, who has limited funds to donate, which needs help the most? We have to be selective because my husband is retired & we have a teenage daughter & 3 pets. I was wondering if anyone could help me figure out how to try fundraising for the wild horses at my daughter’s middle school. Have a well known wild horse group represented as the recipient of the fundraiser, example, The Cloud Foundation, & try to get people to donate to the cause?? I’m not good at organizing things, but, I thought maybe getting schools involved would be good, if possible????

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43. I believe the legal fund is where the money is needed most, but which one?

    Valerie maybe you can email Carol from the Cloud Foundation and order some Cloud calendars at a special price that the kids could sell at school.

    What ever money is raised can go to the legal fund.

    Marge

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