(The News as We See It) by R.T. Fitch
Advocates Catch Feds and Dave Cattoor with their Pants Down
USFWS&BLM/Cattors covertly loading and shipping wild horses from Sheldon ~ Photo by Katie Fite
While law makers and the American public had their eyes concentrated on the much contested Silver King round up in Nevada the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) along with helicopter contractor David Cattoor where conducting an unpublished and unannounced secret wild horse gather at the Sheldon National Wildlife Refuge (Sheldon).
Plaintiff in several suits against the BLM for lack of transparency and violation of First Amendment Rights, Laura Leigh , was tipped off that there was illicit activity taking place at Sheldon as many roads were closed due to a “wild horse gather”.
On September 22, 2010 Ms. Leigh discussed this situation with wild horse advocate Leslie Peeples, who was already on the road to visit another wild horse herd, and Ms. Peeples immediately changed plans and headed to Sheldon to investigate as no such “gather” was indicated in any public records.
On the morning of Sept. 23, 2010 Ms. Peeples phoned the Lakeview office of the USFWS and when asked if a wild horse gather was being conducted she was told, “yes”.
Cattoor Truck at Sheldon ~ Photo by Leslie Peeples
Ms. Peeples headed out to Sheldon on back roads when she encountered an oncoming semi-truck with a livestock trailer being towed behind it at a reasonable speed. Ms. Peeples intended to ask the driver where the stampede was taking place so she pulled her car over to the side of the road and stepped out into her lane of traffic to flag the driver down for information. Upon seeing this, according to filed court documents, the truck driver aimed for the center of the road, speeded up and missed running over Ms. Peoples by only inches.
“It is my opinion based on clear observations at the time that, had I not moved out of the way, the truck would have hit me,” stated Ms. Peeples, “As it turns out, the truck which passed by me was loaded with, what I am informed and believe to be wild horses from the Sheldon gather.”
Same Truck at Twin Peaks ~ Photo by Terry Fitch
Photos verify that said truck was owned by BLM helicopter stampede contractor, David Cattoor. One photo was taken by Ms. Peeples at Sheldon and the other by Terry Fitch at Twin Peaks. They both match.
Subsequently, upon heading further up the road, Ms. Peeples was barred access to public lands and told that the stampede was not published because “We like to keep things low and quiet”. Likewise when Ms. Peeples inquired about viewing the horses at the holding facility she was told that it was on private land and that she would not be allowed.
Upon departing Sheldon and with the resumption of cell service Ms. Peeples did make contact with the USFWS Lakeview Regional Office (Lakeview Office) and spoke with a Mr. Paul Steblien who confirmed that a wild horse roundup was taking place and that 400 horses would be stampeded. Further information relayed by Mr. Steblien indicated that the horses would be transferred to the Dufferina Refuge Headquarters and that 250 of the captured horses would forever lose their freedom while 150 would be “vasectomized” and “ovarectomized” and returned to the refuge. Mr. Steblien did agree to escort Ms. Peeples into the gather area the following day.
Ms. Peeples then headed to the Dufferina Headquarters to further search for information regarding this secret stampede. Unfortunately no one was available at the office so she continued down the road to locate a place to take her dog for a walk.
Horse Bones near subversive burying pit near roundup wild horse holding facility ~ Photo by Leslie Peeples
Once outside of her car she began to notice skeletal horse remains scattered on the ground, as she began to investigate and walk further away from the road the bones became more numerous until she came upon a freshly dug pit. Nearby was what appeared to be another pit that was freshly covered with numerous bones scattered throughout the area.
“There were horse bones scattered everywhere. I photographed what I observed…”, Peeples said.
As she headed back to her car she heard horses whinnying. She walked towards the direction of the calls and discovered a holding facility with approximately 250 horses confined. There was no signage indicating area restrictions. Likewise, she witnessed parked in the area what she believed was the same truck that tried to run her over, earlier. There were no humans at the facility.
Chopper violating FAA Safety Regulations ~ Photo by Leslie Peeples
While walking back up the hill towards her car she could hear the roar of helicopter blades which as she proceeded and crested the hill she observed the helicopter hovering just a few dozen feet above the roof of her car. Once her physical presence was reveled the chopper pilot aggressively turned the aircraft in her direction and hovered directly over her with little more than 30 feet of safe clearance.
“At this point the helicopter was so close I could see the pilot’s face and his facial features appeared angry”, said Peeples.
As the unsettled Ms. Peeples attempted to make her way to the car the aircraft continued his aggressive actions and orbited around her at an estimated distance of only 60 feet. Even while in the car and attempting to drive away the chopper continued to harass her until she stopped and shot another picture which, then, caused the aircraft to depart the area.
Relentless helicopter attack againest taxpaying U.S. Citzen ~ Photo by Leslie Peeples
Ms. Peeples pulled over to gather her composure and exited her vehicle for some fresh air only to have the chopper return, again, to harass her. Once more the camera proved to be an effective weapon in deterring the marauding helicopter.
The level of harassment did not let up as soon Ms. Peeples was accosted by a USFWS Ranger and the following day her “escort” was canceled due to her unexpected presence on public land the day before.
Ms. Peeples has and will submit to the court her video and photographic documentation of the events laid out in this brief article.
Categories: Horse News, Horse Slaughter, Wild Horses/Mustangs
Straight from the Horse's Heart 
We should send this to Jesse McKinley–maybe he’d like to do a follow-up piece for the NYT. What federal agency is going to investigate the “bone pit”? Maybe Dave Cattoor would like to say something…….
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The bone pit will be off limits in the future. Just the fact we are here discussing it will make them put up a no entry sign, maybe with warning of prosecution… would it be a bluff?
I tried to post the PDF with plans to remove all horses within 5 to 15 years.. sorry I could not get it to work but below is more info on the management of Sheldon wild horses.
http://www.fws.gov/sheldonhartmtn/sheldon/horseburro.html
I think the wild ones are telling us to do something quick. They are dying again. mar
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” ranchers raised European horse breeds as working stock and as remounts for the U.S. Cavalry.”
From the Sheldon site.
Gee I wonder where the ranchers got the “European” horses.
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I would like to see that helicoptor yahoo grounded. And never fly again. That needs to be reported to the FFA and they need to ground him. If they don’t ground him they have ways to find out how many hours before he was in a bar drinking. That is *insane* of any person flying an aircraft to do! ‘road rage of the skies’ its insane!
Same thing for the truck driver call the dept of transportation and report him. They are not supposed to go past anyone in the road much less move to the middle of the road to make someone jump out of the way.
Think about what happened- and if the same happened with a truck or a helicoptor where the public could ‘see’ what happened.
That is criminal and would be all over the news with both truck and helicoptor drivers arrested.
Now are loads of those’ secret round-up’wild horses going to show up in slaughter pens?
Or does the contractor just shoot them in the pens or let them die of thirst in the pens and try to bury them?
I bet that area is over run with coyotes feeding on dead horses. Cattle people must love ya contractors at calfing season!!
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Listened to Laura Leigh on the radio show tonight. Shes awesome!
The removing of wild horses fits into the larger picture of the destruction of America.
I hope more Americans notice this huge ‘taking’ stealing- before its to late!
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Grandma Gregg.. I was thinking exactly that earlier today.. Leslie went through and still is I’m SURE, some serious mental anguish..
That pilot and that truck driver need to be brought up on charges NOW!
I really don’t think the FAA would appreciate knowing a pilot was using a chopper as a weapon OR a means to scare someone. What if something went horribly wrong and he did crash it but hurt Leslie!?
And, WTH is up with the A-hole that met Leslie in the morning? They are showing their ugly ‘colors’ now. This alone could get.. weit.. SHOULD get this whole operation shut down. Will it? I dunno?
I just Thank God that Leslie is OK and in one piece. I totaly agree, none of ‘us’ should be out there alone again. Too much of ‘he said, she said’ could happen. Good ‘ol Boys seem to stick together. And seriously.. All that against one woman, alone with her dog? Really Cattoor’s & BLM & Forest Service? You couldn’t ‘curb’ your helo, your semi or your tongues? Whew.. I’d like to see their Top Dollar PR Firm get this sorry bunch of dumbasses off this time!?
Pictures don’t lie. Neither do ‘WE’! Leslie, I can’t say enough how proud I am of you and how GLAD I am you are OK..
We HAVE to get at that ‘bone pit’ AND see what’s underneath where it was recently covered over. We KNOW what’s there. I mean, I would imagine it’s babies? I’m so so sorry, I don’t mean to be crude or sick at all. That’s just what comes to mind. :O(
I say, IF they block it off, we get a court order to have it dug up. Smoking Gun.. Blew up in their faces.
We were all saying it was going to take something ‘extreme’ to happen and maybe, just maybe this was it.
I will NEVER EVER believe anything a Government Agency says to me again.. (Not that I did before, but being brought up to respect Government, like I’m sure you all were; you WANT to trust it?) How can I teach my Son to respect and honor his Gov. AND The President if this is what they do, constantly? I can’t! We’re down to trusting each other. That’s a good thing and that’s what I’m stickin’ with.
This is something that has to be plastered everywhere. We are NOT going away… Not now.. NOT EVER! Thank you to each and everyone of you working so hard on legal cases, out at roundups with broken hearts and cameras clicking..
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I think all those bone pits should be dug up.
Perhaps a college professor or several with forensic or other studies would like to examine all the bone pits across america.
Even bones of wild horses can ‘speak’ to us on how they died.
Plus after the *insane threats* towards americans alone around the helicoptor contractors…I would like the FBI to dig up ALL the bone pits and make sure none of the perceived ‘enemies’ of the contactors aren’t buried there!!
Anyone who is insane enough to drive a semi and a helicoptor towards and over a starnger!! is a very out of control mentaly unbalanced person!!
.Could be very easy for people like that to kill a person, a co-worker- who actually spoke against them directly.
I think the years and years of killing wild horses is similar to PTS from people who have killed in wars and such. It gives people a mental problem and they need help and not to continue with their jobs.
What will it take?? a road rage helicoptor crashing into someones car or a crowd before these insane people are stopped?
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Please press charges against the boss of the pilot and truck driver–Dave and Sue Cattoor.
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Ooops.. Sorry for some ‘broken’ thoughts… I think my mind got ahead of my fingers.. Typos too..
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as to the blm may they hurt bad for hurting
the beautiful animals joan saunders ,
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What they are doing to these beautiful, innocent horses is truly heartbreaking & this story needs to be read by as many people as possible! I will definitely send it to everyone I know, but I wish there was something more I could do to save the horses & to help prevent these horrible people from hurting & possibly killing someone! What a tragedy, I truly hope they are stopped before more damage is done & more of these poor animals are forced to suffer for no reason!
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Can’t really speak as to the intentions of the driver or whether or not he sped up or the necessity of jumping out of the truck’s path, since that wasn’t on the video. From the video, it looks like the road is barely wide enough for a semi and clearly would not be considered to be a two lane road. There really isn’t any room to be standing on the road. This seems to contradict the account,
The truck driver aimed for the center of a one lane dirt road, if he wasn’t in the center he would be off the road. How is it “her lane” when traffic going both ways has to share the road to the point of one of the vehicles having to pull off the road to let the other pass?
The whole story seems to be over sensationalized, which casts doubts on all of the accusations and assumptions being made. Which is really too bad because your core arguments are strong enough to stand on their own.
Can’t say that I approve killing horses but they are an invasive non-native species and have to be controlled somehow. Sterilizing part of the population seems to be a good long term method of population control.
Did the BLM break a law by not publicizing the stampede? There seemed to be plenty of people who knew about it, even reporters at major media outlets. The media is largely sympathetic with your cause, why not work with them to increase your access or provide you with video? You could even provide them with questions to ask.
The horse bones look at least 6 months old, so it is hard to come to the conclusion they were killed by the BLM and if they were digging pits to bury horses why would they leave bones scattered all over the area? Why is there only one picture of bones and not a picture showing them over a larger area? Why is there no picture showing the freshly dug pits? If Lara was there with a camera and says she saw something, then were is the picture of it? If there are more pictures why not post them?
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like killing horses. I just don’t know if I believe the accounts in this story, especially about intimidation. All of the people in the video were very nice and professional with Lara Leigh.
Even though my comment is critical, I admire your determination and dedication to your cause.
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Been trying to catchup on all the actions that have taken place this past week. I have to respond to the following comments made by Wodun.
His/her comment–
“Can’t say that I approve killing horses but they are an invasive” —–
Obviously we know where “you” are coming from with this comment!
“Did the BLM break a law by not publicizing the stampede? There seemed to be plenty of people who knew about it, even reporters at major media outlets”–
Who are these “reporters” at major media outlets—how come that I as a member of the PUBLIC didn’t know of these activities? What about the statement that “they” wanted to keep it quiet? Looks like they sure have something to hide?
“Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like killing horses. I just don’t know if I believe the accounts in this story, especially about intimidation. All of the people in the video were very nice and professional with Lara Leigh.”
Your “definition” of nice sure isn’t my definition of nice!
And like the other great comments out there I agree that no Wild Horse Advocate should be riding alone—you need someone “riding shotgun” and watching your back!
I know you all were taken by surprise to walk into such a situation and I am thankful nobody got injured or worse.
Donation being sent to Grassroots today!
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Wodun, if you would like to see Leslie’s sworn declaration it’s at grassrootshorse.com on the legal actions page.
By the way, the horses are a reintroduced native species. https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0BwxnQ91Hgo-LMjIzYmZhODctMjQwNy00ZDdiLTk2ZWItNzg4ZDZkZjA5NmZk&sort=name&layout=list&num=50
Bye now.
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Lets see unlicensed vets, experiments, bones everywhere sure sounds like a consentration camp to me!
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Wodun — Your comments are heard. We live in a country where it’s OK to agree to disagree.
Please go to other posts on this blog. Read view points that may differ from your own. I hope it will be educational and that you’ll feel welcome. Please … ask questions. You’ll find a wealth of information here that may surprise you.
At this point, there are thousands and thousands fewer horses on the range than the BLM claims. One of the bloggers here, Lisa LeBlanc, put together a graph, using numbers gathered from the BLM, showing how this agency deliberately skews numbers and that wild herd populations have actually declined dramatically. They are not over-populated and the herds are not in need of culling. If anything, many horses in holding should be released, because in some areas wild horses are being managed to extinction.
They really aren’t an invasive species. In fact, the DOI refers to these animals as a “desirable species.” There are many ways that wild equine help to improve the range, just as their ancestors did. Moreover, it’s their land, protected by law.
As to your comments on the bones … It doesn’t matter if the bones were fresh or not. It’s against the law to kill wild horses, which seems to have been done frequently at this particular site — enough that pits were dug, and the one was freshly covered. Hard to say what was under the dirt — how deep the pit was. It really does need to be investigated as a crime scene.
Also, truck drivers generally slow down if there seems to be an issue in the road. They don’t speed up and move toward the center of the road, toward where a person is standing. However, with this contractor, there tends to be a history of aggressive behavior toward humans as well as horses.
This “gather” was not published on any official web site. That is contrary to official policy and public demand. There is supposed to be a comment period and a notice period, as well as other protocols, which were blatantly ignored. Anything that is done on public land needs to be transparent to the public, as we’re paying for it.
Overall, the BLM seems to be very much out of control, doing whatever they want on our tax dollars with no sense of accountability. What we’re trying to do here is demand change, share information, find support, and … yes … occasionally express our outrage at a rogue BLM & DOI.
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Also, Wodun…the video was not of Leslie Peeples experiance but of Laura’s over the past several months highlighting her struggles for access. If you go to grassrootshorse.com you can download Leslie’s declaration and see that she was on Highway 140 when she pulled off the road.
R.T. Fitch Author – “Straight from the Horse’s Heart” The Force of the Horse, LLC 1-800-974-FOTH http://www.rtfitch.com http://www.sfthh.com
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Perfectly stated, Nora…I know it will be lost on Wodun.
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🙂 Well, I live in a world of possibilities. I hope people who don’t understand where we’re coming from can learn and perhaps “see the light.” Sigh … hope is a fickle friend. 🙂
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Seems like Wodun needs to have his or her logic meter checked and recalibrated….the irrational meter is working overtime to excuse bad, illegal behavior.
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I stumbled on this exchange of information about the Wild Horses. It is obvious that so many people are passionate about them.
Living in NJ, it is very difficult to imagine the “western” setting of all the open, inaccessible space.
When people like Wodun post, please do not attack them. With all the solid information available, PLEASE educate them. It would be easy for a person, trying to understand the issues to be turned off by being attacked.
When people use profanity or attack me for asking questions, my Personal Radar says “Don’t trust these people. They are fighting with emotion, not fact.” At this point, I tend to dismiss their position/comments. This is NOT the effect you wanted, was it?
To fight effectively, we need effective action. The people who mentioned the FFA, calling the White House, contacting Legislators, filing police reports are getting the facts on record are helping the issue. When a Judge makes a ruling on a case, s/he can only use the evidence presented. PUBLICIZE the EVIDENCE far and wide. The more facts that are made public, the better the chance of getting a positive outcome for the horses.
Document, document, document! Work with a partner. Stay safe.
The Good Guys HAVE to WIN !
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Right on, Susan! I totally agree with you, on all points. Emotions naturally run high when it comes to our precious wild ones. But we need calm deliberate action to effect positive changes.
I am afraid that there is much more involved than meets the eyes and ears. Transparency and integrity, on BOTH sides, is a MUST! I appreciate your voice of reason.
Thanks to everyone who is working so hard for our mustangs!
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Susan:
I think you are confusing the posts to Wodun as attack. No one used any profanity and I am the one that got petulent with recalibrate the logic meter, Nora’s response (as I noted) was perfect. As to my comment “it would be lost on Wodun” is a FACT of this debate and battle.
You did not comment on Wodun’s position that these animals are non native AND invasive. Funny considering there are probably less than 18,000 left roaming. You did not comment on the illegal flight activity of the helo and the aggressive driving of an apparent Cattoor meat truck. Fine. Be nice and educate. OK…where is THEIR accountability to us? Why do we have to be baby polite while animals die to “educate” someone who apparently doesn’t have a clue?
What you fail to realize is that lives, not Wodun’s feelings are hanging in the balance of life and death. By Wodun’s logic, it is very clear this is either an uneducatable and/or uninformed person or worse, a player in the insidious scheme that is killing many wildlife forms, to include our wild ones.
Don’t misunderstand, I support their right to speak just as I speak on the meat blogs. The argument comes down to facts of which the meat brigade has few other than that’s the way we’ve always done it and a ton of lying and hiding or ignoring the reality of this situation.
99% of the people here posted to educate on the poster’s behalf. I got a little flip, but no less sincere.
They don’t listen, Susan. Based on the numbers and situation, I don’t understand why you think anyone here was not educating. And I’m sure Wodun can speak for his or herself. I don’t need a lecture about being fair, kind or educating.
But, you are intitled to your opinion…just like me. Nobody “shot the Wodun” messenger. Sadly, not what can be said of our wild and domestic ones.
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The truck driver SHOULD have STOPPED for someone in the middle of the road in the middle of nowhere who could have needed assistance. Instead, he sped up. As stated in Leslie’s document, he would have run her over if she hadn’t moved to the side.
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Not all of the people from the various agencies have been “nice”. Please view more videos and you will see that many of the armed security agents have been arrogant, rude and “badge heavy”.
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Louie — You know … some people carry around big badges to compensate for other, smaller things … Did I just say that out loud?! 🙂 🙂
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As far as the horses being “feral”, that issue was settled in 1971 when Congress declared that our Wild Mustangs are Federally Protected Wildlife…PERIOD. They are, at this time, anything but protected. The only protection they have is from the courageous advocates who are met with hostility, aggression and downright criminal behavior.
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Nora, there do seem to be some issues that play into this whole ugly scenario, but we wont’ go there. One thing for certain –REAL MEN don’t have to have a badge or a gun and they don’t have a need to threaten or intimidate.
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Dear Wodun
You happen to be totally wrong about the myth that wild horses are not native to North America. On Sept 21, a story by Associated Press Writer Gillian Flaccus wrote about a trove of animal fossils dating back 1.4 million years that researchers say will fill in the blanks in southern California’s history. There were over 1,500 fragments of many animals,” INCLUDING HORSE.” Google the article. Your argument that the horse is not native to the North American continent is so full of holes it is a joke. Are you going to go against the research community? I doubt you will unless you want to make a complete fool of yourself. So you can go back to your horse slaughtering friends and tell them they need to take a look at this information too.
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We need our Senators and Representatives to stand up for our Horses. We need Judges to stand up for our horses. So far the majority seems pretty afraid and unwilling to stand for integrity, ethics and humanity. The US Forestry Department, the BLM and the USFWS disgust me. I forgot the MMS and of course the Nevada Department of Agriculture. The Nevada Department of Agriculture planted a field of alfalfa along HWY 50 with no fencing around it. Made the 24 Virginia Range Horses dining in that field estrays and a hazard. Evil people with black hearts. I don’t believe Obama will help, Ken Salazar is his man. The Courts and Congress are our only chance. And of course all the advocates in this country doing whatever they can to save our Wild Herds. A special thanks to those on the front lines.
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. The inventories that remain on this date are NON EXCESS distinct population segments, threatened and endangered by loss of habitat… previously free roaming migratory herds of horses and burros…some heritage herds now extinct by fatally flawed Resource Management Plans.
Wild equids are Aboriginal by fossil fact, re introduced species of special interest, wild life by Law, held in trust under the wild life public trust doctrine. If these legal facts don’t save our living resources on our heritage landscapes Congress has failed us again.
Emergency Congressional intervention is necessary and imperative. These herds are representative our final vestiges of American Freedoms
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Go away for a couple of days and all hell breaks loose!
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@ Nora Morbeck
Sep 27, 2010 @ 07:08:49
Thanks for your response. I would have to see more than some bones on the ground to assume they were killed by the BLM. And you seem to believe in the absence of any evidence that there were pits. Someone was there with a camera why not take a picture? I don’t doubt your claims that horses are being killed but in this specific story, the claims are not backed up by the photographic evidence.
@ R.T. Fitch
Sep 27, 2010 @ 07:11:12
Sorry if I made that mistake but you seemed to be implying the pictures and video were from this event. I have the same skepticism of organizations like yours as I do of the government. To go back to the bones example, why not show a picture of them scattered over a larger area? Am I supposed to believe that there is a large debris field of bones based on a picture that doesn’t show it?
While I might disagree with your methods, I do admire the lengths you are willing to go to to promote your cause.
@ Denise
Sep 27, 2010 @ 10:37:24
I very much doubt the accuracy of those claims. I don’t just automatically believe things people say to me.
Paranoid much? I imagine being called a government or meat industry plant is one of the worst insults in your community.
I readily admit to being uninformed and after reading this site and watching the videos posted, I still feel like I am not getting the full or even an accurate story.
@LOUIE COCROFT
Sep 27, 2010 @ 11:03:37
I watched all of the videos linked on the site RT posted in the story. Everyone is acting professionally toward the camera. As far as rudeness goes, I saw more evidence of the people behind the camera being rude.
These government employees know what you say about them. You wonder why there isn’t more access? Kick a guy in the crotch and then ask for a ride to the store. Even though everyone is on a first name basis, there is an adversarial relationship but it goes both ways.
I especially like the part where they tried to trick the BLM guy into escorting them to the roundup. Not exactly honest but pretty clever.
@ Barb3000
Sep 27, 2010 @ 14:04:44
Yes horses lived in North America 1.4 million years ago then they all died off and were not introduced until the white man came. A lot has changed over the last 1.4 million years, climate and topography just to name a few.
Excuse me? You know I really have a hard time taking any of this seriously. I would be more than happy to have a rational conversation about this with someone but I don’t think that is possible.
I probably agree with 99% of your positions but I am turned off by the strategies, tactics, and rhetoric used to achieve your goals. Transparency and accountability are a two way street.
My advice is to keep those cameras rolling and post the full unedited versions online. Buy a better mic or some sort of wind shield. If you see a debris field of bones, take a picture that shows it. Conduct yourselves with the same integrity that you want out of the government. Don’t sensationalize your story, you don’t need to.
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I think you are a smart ass who has come here to waste people’s time. You cannot use your name because we likely know you. You say just enough to reveal you have been in this a while. You are here to play games. You are enjoying tearing down advocates and seem to be a kind of psuedo advocate yourself. I know several people like you. I bet you are one of them.
Having a good time??? Why don’t you try driving out to investigate a roundup sometime and see if they treat you better… or are you on a first name basis? Somehow I do not think I am off the mark here.
mar
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Wow that is really paranoid.
You don’t know me and I don’t know you. I followed a link from Coast to Coast AM to this site.
I just read the story and gave my opinion on it. As I said several times I agree with many of this communities positions when it comes to wild horses, I just happen to disagree with the methods they use to promote the cause.
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I knew you would say I am paranoid. I am delighted you lived up to my expectations but to tell you the truth you Are a waste of my time. If anyone else wants to put up with you- compassionately or otherwise, go for it. You hold no interest to me. I could care less if you are what you say, If I am wrong, so be it, there are more important things to do than read your flip responses that are Your Conjecture. Many here have real experience and do not need your BS. This is only my opinion and you have yours. No, I am not paranoid. But you are playing games with good people. m
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If you were in agreement then you would be acting a bit differently. You are much less in agreement that you own up to. You are far more negative right from the get go that you can admit. And why have you not used your real name??? We do overwhelmingly and unless you are supportive, and you are not, you are picking away at people who have done no harm and have been threatened for Caring. m
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Wodun ~ The earliest known direct ancestor to the Equus genus is something like 55 million years old. The latest known horse DNA was recently found and dated at no more than 7,500 years old, not 1.4 million years old! That 7,500 year old DNA was of Equus caballus – the exact same species that the Spanish reintroduced in the 1500s. And the same species as our present horses, both wild and domestic.
That plus the fact that the National Institutes of Science field studies state that horses are not destructive of their environment, and are actually beneficial: Cows have no upper front teeth, only a thick pad: they graze by wrapping their long tongues around grass and pulling on it. If the ground is wet, they will pull out the grass by the roots, preventing it from growing back. Horses have both upper and lower incisors and graze by “clipping the grass,” similar to a lawn mower, allowing the grass to easily grow back.
In addition, the horse’s digestive system does not thoroughly degrade the vegetation it eats. As a result, it tends to “replant” its own forage with the diverse seeds that pass through its system undegraded. This unique digestive system greatly aids in the building up of the absorptive, nutrient-rich humus component of soils. This, in turn, helps the soil absorb and retain water upon which many diverse plants and animals depend. In this way, the wild horse is also of great value in reducing dry inflammable vegetation in fire-prone areas. Back in the 1950s, it was primarily out of concern over brush fires that Storey County, Nevada, passed the first wild horse protection law in the United States.
And, in addition, Congress declared in the 1971 Wild Free-Roaming Horse & Burro Act: It is the policy of Congress that wild free-roaming horses and burros shall be protected from capture, branding, harassment, or death; and to accomplish this they are to be considered in the area where presently found, as an integral part of the natural system of the public lands.
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Why don’t you tell the BLM that?
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We are all very aware that government employees know what we say–problem is–they don’t LISTEN.
All that armed guard had to do was be polite, and try to help the observers find the round-up site. Instead, he was rude and belligerent. As to whether he felt he was being “tricked’ is up for debate. There should have been NO NEED to trick him. He forgets that he is a PUBLIC SERVANT and that those humane observers have every right to ask for direction. His response was totally out of line and unwarranted.
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If we are talking about the same clip, the guy was not rude or belligerent. And it was pretty clear that the people behind the video camera were trying to get a BLM escort not to the observing area but to the actual round up site, why drag this poor guy into whatever drama you have with his boss?
I have no problem condemning heavy handed actions from government officials but this is not one of those cases.
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If anyone has a hard time taking any of the comments on this blog seriously, then why would anyone even venture on to debate any of the issues?
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I have a hard time taking it seriously when people start with the accusations that anyone with a different viewpoint who stumbles onto the site is a government plant or some other delusion paranoid reason for why I am here.
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As to the seriousness of the helicopter harrassment–that could be viewed either objectively or subjectively–depending on whether you were in the helicopter or directly underneath it.
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Or it can be viewed through whatever credibility you think the accuser has in a he said she said where only one side of the indecent is given.
Sensational stories work good when you are talking to your fellow true believers who are unquestioning in accepting whatever story is put forward. They are less effective when dealing with the general public who has just as much reason to doubt the advocacy group as they do the government.
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But the actions of the pilot could easily be interpreted as intimidation with the threat of violence. And I am sure a judge & the FAA might feel the same. There was no reason for him to be concerned about a woman standing there and if he was, all he had to do was radio it in and let some BLM official go speak with her. It really was none of HIS BUSINESS AS A HIRED PILOT why she was there, so why did he feel like he had to swoop down a few times over her head? Looks like it is the advocates who need the bodyguards. Just a note to the Cattoors–these aren’t your horses you are rounding up, nor is this your old days when you were secretly rustling wild horses to send to slaughter and you had to be careful of anyone catching you. These are AMERICA’S HORSES. You might want to start acting like it.
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“Or it can be viewed through whatever credibility you think the accuser has in a he said she said where only one side of the indecent is given.”
I’m curious what other side there could be. Why would a ‘copter hover over a car or a person several times. Did he want to see her driver’s license?
I’m assuming you’ve watched the ‘copters flying close above the horses and right on top of that week old burro. These men are just not compassionate about anything. Their business has hardened their hearts.
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In the interest of good relations between federal employees and advocates, perhaps a swap could be arranged–one of our pilots could fly the helicopter and one of the federal employees could try to outrun it.
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WILD FREE-ROAMING HORSE AND BURRO ACT:
That Congress finds and declares that wild free-roaming horses and burros are living symbols of the historic and pioneer spirit of the West; that they contribute to the diversity of life forms within the Nation and enrich the lives of the American people; and that these horses and burros are fast disappearing from the American scene. It is the policy of Congress that wild free-roaming horses and burros shall be protected from capture, branding, harassment, or death; and to accomplish this they are to be considered in the area where presently found, as an integral part of the natural system of the public lands.
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I’m a little late getting in here. Can anyone give me a phone number or email address so that I can have to tell them what AS____S they are. Who can I contact about this illegal round up?
Thanks!
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Leslie and Laura both should go to http://www.doioig.gov/report-wrongdoing and fill out a complaint form.
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Coming from a family with many in law enforcement and many friends in law enforcement, I would have to disagree. The conduct of the security guard was most UNPROFESSIONAL and his superior should have called him on the carpet. People who enter into the field of law enforcement have to be thoroughly screened, and they must have the right personality and temperment to handle any and all situations that they encounter with the public. This was NOT a critical situation, nor was he dealing with persons attempting to break the law. They merely were trying to get to a destination. He reacted in such a way as to make one wonder what HE was doing out there.
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By the way, did ya know that BLM settled the native/feral argument, which Agencies rely on to exclude wild horse and burro herd restoration. Proposed Nv Test Training Range RAMP and final EIS contained this statement
Comment 87, BLM Response, pg. E-25″The issue of a wild horse as an invasive species is moot since the 1971 WHBA gave wild free-roaming horses “special” status based on their heritage of assisting man settle the “west”….”
Didn’t the Kleppe v. New Mexico case override state law regarding management of wild horses? Isn’t the herd area within the wild life preserve. Inquiring minds want to know.
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Here is what I found so far on the Sheldon roundup. I have not found any EA or public announcement of their specific (date and location) plan to gather but this article says: “… Before the release this fall of a new draft environmental impact statement, Steblein briefed Congress on the problem and the proposed response: removing ALL horses from Sheldon Refuge within 5 to 15 years to restore habitat for sage grouse and other wildlife. Horses would be adopted out, or as a last resort, auctioned. The refuge now gathers 350 to 400 horses a year…” And WE thought the BLM was bad!
http://www.fws.gov/refuges/mediatipsheet/August_2010/SheldonRefugetoGetToughonInvaders.html
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We all need to educate ourselves on the BS that is being spoon fed to us and here is another example regarding Sheldon:
Click to access Sheldon%20PU%203%20-%20crop%20_whole.pdf
Purposes for Sheldon National Wildlife
Refuge:
“…as a refuge and breeding ground for wild
animals and birds…” [my comment: and the wild animals don’t include wild horses!!!]
“…for the conservation and development
of natural wildlife resources and for the
protection and improvement of public grazing …” [didn’t they just say WILD animals?]
Mining and Livestock Grazing
Mining within Sheldon Refuge is a complex issue and
will require additional information before informed
decisions can be made. The Service will prepare
a separate plan [has anyone found THIS plan the speak of?] to address mining and minerals management within the Refuge.
[my comment… so it is OK to manage the refuge for grazing but not for the REAL wild animals which include the horses? PLUS although this land is supposed to be a wildlife refuge … it is OK to approve mining? And where is this mining proposal?] More BS!
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Jus’sayin’ for sayin’ sake.. It’s pretty ‘funny’ or ‘odd’ that ‘Wodun’, (who to me, talks like a man..), shows up here on R.T.’s blog after Leslie’s ‘incident’.
IF Mr. Wodun were truly interested in asking questions and learning something I don’t think he’d put himself in the ‘defensive’ positon from the start.
The main quote to remember here, was ‘that we like to keep things quiet’.
When you hear that sort of thing coming from a Public Employee’s mouth, regardless of what capacity they work, it IS a RED FLAG…
Thanks for letting me put my 2 cents worth in…
Keep it real fellow ‘Mares’ & ‘Stallions’! :O)
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Fair comment, Joey.
Wodun’s listed last name is Nudow which is Wodun spelled backwards and it comes from a gmail account so the individual is, by all odds, bogus.
I did let the first message through for the sake of representing another voice but it appears that the facts just don’t seem to make any sense to this possible plant. I would not waste much time on attempting to educate someone who is not straight forward enough to use their own name, that alone speaks volume as to intent.
At least even Dave Duquette voluntarily goes by “Doink” so I have to give him that.
Good call.
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RT I appreciate you posting my comment. Questioning viewpoints do not appear to be very welcome here and it shows your courage.
I’m sorry if you thought Wodun is my real name, it is not. That should of been pretty obvious. Perhaps you are not very up to date on your internet culture. But a bogus individual? C’mon that is a little ridiculous, I am a person. The viewpoint in my comments is my own.
That is why you have little credibility. Maybe you don’t get better access because no one views you as credible. Anyone who asks a tough question must be a government or meat industry plant, or worse they are part of some anti-horse conspiracy.
/in a wisp of smoke Wodun disappears back into the shadows. The faint smell of fresh meat is all that is left. You are left to wonder when the Overlords will next send their servant or what form it will take in the next visit.
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Sorry Wodun but I am not as dumb as I look. I know all about the mystical internet wizard but you have become a detractor while we attempt to solve some very serious issues.
If you are not forthcoming enough to logon with our real name then there is no place for you here. We are adults and have little time for adolescent flashbacks of middle aged misfits who never got beyond Dungeons and Dragons.
Send your warlords, we have defeated worse.
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Maybe Wodons helicoptor is grounded after his road rage of the skies.??
So he has to spend all his days and nights at his computer (drinking??) playing ‘world of warcraft’ .Being a bitter man posting nonsense attacks at the tree huggers who ‘made him have road rage’. you know like the abuser who says, ‘you made me do it’
don’t punch the computer screen Wodon or you’ll miss the guild raid!!and be sure to get off your ass and shower at least once a day.
I have my imagination too on what a horse killer does when there is no light to kill by!
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Ok: I was informed of the resistance group thru Facebook. Im all for saving the American Horse in every way/aspect . I would even advocate designated lands specifically for the development and welfare of it’s existence (program designed to encourage breeding, minimize human interaction, supplication of food in weather related threatening conditions etc… -whatever it would take -get it?
WHAT IS THE REAL REASON WHY THE BLM/US GOVT WANTS TO ROUND UP THESE HORSES AND REMOVE THEM?? IS IT LAND CONCERNS? WHAT? THE HORSE MEAT MARKET CANT BE THAT BIG & DEMANDING,CAN IT?
WHAT IS THE R*E*A*L REASON BEHIND ALL THIS?????
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Please read this booklet:
Click to access managingforextinction2007.pdf
You are correct in asking “what is it all about?”
My answer is that it is like a muti-layered chocolate cake.
My major concern is the immoral amd illegal activities by our governmental officials who have been instructed, encouaged and are paid [by you and me] to break the law [1971 Congressional Wild Horse and Burro Act] … which ends up with the harassment and abuse and suffering and death of OUR horses/burros on OUR land.
There are a lot of other issues/layers that you will discover when you read the booklet: Water, Land, Livestock and mainly Oil and Energy giants, etc. Please learn and then do whatever little thing within your power (letters to media and governmental officials and friends and relatives)… to help with what I hope YOU know is right.
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Grandma Gregg you rock!
Thanks for the info!
Marge
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Grandma Gregg: NOTHING,I repeat:NOTHING illegal perpetrated by the “govt.” surprises me AT ALL! Yes! I AM ANGRY ABOUT THIS! Unfortunately , with so many serious issues hitting the “landscape” all at once, Im afraid this one will be ignored for quite a long time. MONEY is typically the answer to getting ANY issue to rise above to the surface , and thanks to so many CLUELESS Americans who have voted in the current COMMUNIST in chief and his “comrades” (AND IM INCLUDING RINO REPUBLICANS IN THAT DECLARATION!) – we now a massive problem on our hands! What gets me is typically these type of issues are brought to “light” by the very same people who advocate these CRIMINALS who are currently in office! WHERE IS THE LEFTIST ACTIVISTS IN CRYING OUT AGAINST THE ABSOLUTE ATROCITIES THAT WERE COMMITTED IN THE GULF OF MEXICO?? !! – That said, it’s time for people to STOP looking at politicians as the answer! It’s time for people to educate themselves on the issues and how the current criminals in office have voted & who “owns” them! People need to take the POWER BACK!! The Wild Horses issue is just a symptom of it ALL!
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It is so deep and thick the many reasons they want the horses gone. A big reason is when there are no wild horses on the land…no one is interested in reading the reports and seeing the hard land use that happens.
So many places are now zeroed of wild horses. Land with ‘horse’ names’horse lake”wild horse canyon’ has not a horse left for hundreds of miles. yet the land is over run with thousands or cattle or sheep or mines ruining everything. The ‘lakes are dry’ mines used the water. And noone in Gov. seems to care or notice.
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Concerned American:
Although the last three horse slaughter plants were closed in 2007–the horses are now being shipped to Canada and Mexico. They are driven for hours with no food and no water. Pregnant mares go to slaughter every day. The babies are cut from the mares and tossed out like garbage.
At meat auctions mares that have a foal by their side are routinely sold. The meat buyer shoots the foal because it is illegal to slaughter any horse under 6 months of age.
Although this particular story has a happy ending–there was a case in Montana of a cowboy who had adopted a mustang 11 months earlier. When he lost his property his horse ALMOST went to slaughter. Fortunately between the brand inspector and a couple of people this horse was saved from a brutual death. It is illegal to adopt and send the horse to slaughter within one year of adoption. After the title changes there are NO PROTECTIONS for the horse.
Horse meat is sought after in Europe. We don’t eat horse in this country (except for a few people that might be slaughtering their own–for their own use–Slaughter Sue comes to mind).
I should also mention that the slaughter houses that were closed were not only foreign owned they paid virtually NO AMERICAN TAXES.
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FIRST OF ALL I DO KNOW WHO THE ABOVE SHIRLEY IS BUT IT CERTAINLY IS NOT ME. HER COMMENTS ARE THOSE OF SOMEONE WHO HAS NEVER EXPERIENCED AN INVIDUALS ACTIONS WHEN THEY ARE ANGRY AND AFRAID. YES, I DID SAY AFRAID. BOTH OF THESE MEN WERE AFRAID THAT THEY WERE GOING TO BE CAUGHT DOING SOMETHING ALLEGAL. THE YOUNG LADY IS LUCKY TO HAVE ESCAPED UNHURT. ALSO, SHE DISCOVERED A VERY IMPORTANT PIECE OF EVIDENCE. IF I WAS AN ATTORNEY I WOULD GET A SEARCH WARRENT TO CHECK THE GROUND OF THE HORSE BURIALS
WHICH COULD GIVE VERY IMPORTANT DISCLOSURES. I THANK THIS WOMAN FOR HER COURAGE IN THE LINE OF BATTLE AND SHE HAS PROVEN TO BE A WARRIOR FOR OUR BELOVED HORSES.
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Somehow, the thought MULTINATIONAL CORPORATIONS comes to mind when we ask ‘WHO OR WHAT IS BEHIND THIS”. The slaughter market is just a small sideline–not so small to those who profit from it, but small in comparison. Good way to get the horses out of sight and make some money on the side. That way, people don’t stumble onto bone pits and ask questions.
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Reply I got from the BLM on Facebook after posting this story link on their discussion page.
BLM Wild Horse & Burro Program In early September, the BLM and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service signed an agreement designed to better coordinate the management of wild horses in a region covering northwest Nevada, northeast California and south-central Oregon. The agreement calls for BLM offices in the three states and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to improve how they count the animals and to share the information. However, the recent feral horse gather on the Sheldon National Wildlife Refuge was conducted exclusively by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.
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Wendi: yes , it is clear that ANY response from this agency or any fed agency for that matter is just the same old uncooperative/secretive BS (need I remind you of the EPA and it’s handling of the Gulf of Mexico and Lake Michigan?). Not sure if you are a Nev. native ( I am not. but an animal/horse lover nonetheless) , but if so, please help get the word & exposure out to Sharon Angle (Republican running against Harry Reid for Nev. Senate seat) -it’s obvious that Reid is a complete special interest/”owned” whore who has no loyalty to Nevada or the US. I would hope that Angle would become aware of the issue and be held accountable should she win (and polls indicate she has a very good chance) – I dont trust her completely (she’s a politician,duh) but I sure as hell dont trust Reid. Please consider voting for her. And no, Im not some GOP activist, Im simply concerned with how the Fed Govt has become nothing short of a tyrant and sees no obligation to abide by the Constitution of the US. The BLM/Wild Horse issue is just a microcosm (no less important than the myriad of issues the country is facing) of our current state of affairs and an out of control govt.
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I would like to address a few points here.
First off this is a criminal conspiracy between agents of the government and private contractors and evidence of such activities should be carefully guarded and held by several parties to insure safe keeping for possible future prosecution, especially the assaults and the bones of the dead horses. THAT IS A STATE AND FEDERAL CRIME AND CONSPIRACY. IF THOSE HORSES WERE IN CALIFORNIA THEY BELONG TO CALIFORNIA AND NOT THE FEDS AND CALIFORNIA HAS STRICT LAWS AGAINST CATTLE AND HORSE THIEVING, AND INTENTIONAL KILLING OF LIVESTOCK. PUT YOUR THINKING CAPS ON FOLKS AND EVERYONE OF YOU BLOGGERS PICK UP THE PHONE AND START TELLING YOUR REPS AND THE AG IN SACRAMENTO ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON. WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD HAPPEN IF THEY GOT A FEW THOUSAND PHONE CALLS FROM ALL YOU FOLKS?
WHERE THE HELL IS PETA??
You have a county Grand Jury and this evidence should be presented for inquiry and possible indictment. If the county district attorney tries to block you, file a complaint with the foreman of the Grand Jury, FBI and DOJ for obstruction of justice as a co-conspirator with the above parties. Make sure you also notify the presiding judge of your superior court, your county supervisors and the Attorney General’s office of organized crime in Sacramento. You are correct the actions of the trucker and helicopter pilot are assault and terrorist activities and come under the Dept of Homeland Security. See title 18 USC section 4.
These horses represent freedom, and these people hate freedom in any form. They are the lowest lifeforms we have on this planet. I do believe this is part of a much bigger plan, as these horses can be used by the people living on the land for transportation and their future plans want to limit our ability to travel and be self sufficient. A good horse, especially a former wild one can cover a lot of ground in one day.
I could go into a long discussion on wild horses from a man who once made his living with his brothers of rounding up wild horses, breaking and training them, and then selling them to real cowboys and ranchers as they were preferred over many other breeds of horses by a lot of them living and working in the west.
Yeah, I have ridden with wild horses in Nevada and they are truly some of the most beautiful and awesome animals on this planet. Too bad a few of the big stallions have not kicked the crap out of some of these pukes! I HOPE THEY DO!
Dennis
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I just wish we could be part of logical planning instead of being treated as nuts. I would like to have some logical answer we can all agree to. They have been practicing birth control on State owned wild Nevada horses since 2004. Oh, by the way, better watch what you eat, we might be next.
Gonacon, Development of Injectable and Oral Contraceptive Technologies and Their Assessment for Wildlife Population and Disease Management
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/wildlife_damage/nwrc/research/reproductive_control/gonacon.shtml
Advantages of GnRH
NWRC scientists are hopeful that the GnRH vaccine will soon be approved for use for wildlife fertility control. GnRH vaccines have an advantage over PZP because they prevent eggs from being released from the ovaries, thereby eliminating estrus and some undesirable behaviors (e.g., bucks chasing does across roads) associated with it. In addition, GnRH vaccine has promise for reducing or eliminating certain undesirable behaviors in companion animals. For example, fighting, scent-marking, caterwauling, and wandering by cats, and unruly behavior in horses, could be reduced by GnRH vaccine because the vaccine indirectly blocks the production of sex hormones (e.g., estrogen and testosterone) which contribute to the expression of such behaviors.
The single-shot, multi-year GonaCon™ vaccine will be a useful technique for the management of certain enclosed or urban/suburban wildlife populations, such as deer. GonaCon™ still has limitations, however, especially the need to capture and inject each animal.
“Long-Term Efficacy of Three Contraceptive Approaches for Population Control of Wild Horses”
Click to access miller062.pdf
“Four-year contraception rates of mares treated with single injection porcine zona pellucida and GnRH vaccines and intrauterine devices”
Click to access miller084.pdf
“GonaCon, a versatile GnRH Contraceptive for a large variety of pest animal problems.”
Click to access miller043.pdf
Q. How long does GonaCon™ last?
A. It depends upon the individual animal and its response to the vaccine. Long-term field efficacy data currently does not exist. However, in pen studies, a single-shot of GonaCon™ has successfully kept 4 out of 5 female deer infertile for 5 years. A second shot given the same year or in subsequent years can increase effectiveness, potentially rendering deer infertile for life.
Blm testing fertility control
Click to access Fertility_control_03_05_2010.pdf
Way better plan than this
Click to access BLM.Team.Euth.FOIA_Cover.letter.pdf
Actually, this sound like it could be an answer, if each animal was allowed to reproduce when it is old enough. I would not want my mares to reproduce year after year, but with real range management. Designate land for the wild animals only, replant the grasses, build solar water pumps, keep the horses and all the animals healthy. If the horses trust some of our photographer friends, would they accept a wrangler who could gently move them around, so they do not damage the ranges? I know this is a fantasy.
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RT– I guess freedom of the press is alive and well, just not fair. Thanks for confirming my suspicions about you and your motivations. I’ll go elsewhere find the truth and facts. You and people like you are the reason so many others are misguided, misinformed, and ultimately defrauded out of their hard earned donations to a cause that is bias and deceitful in hiding the full truth. By not posting other points of view or reasonable arguements YOU are the one perpetrating the conspiracy– not everyone else.
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Not real clear as to what you are talking about, Ace?
Even let your comment through while you hide behind a handle as it is obvious you have something to hide, like your name and who you really are.
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I have submitted information and questions to this site related to the Sheldon gather and you have not posted them. That is what my comment was referring to.
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Wow, I posted what I had in my heart and you posted what you wanted. So, it is hard to understand what you are upset about. Did you read all the various comments? Please if you have a good idea, most horse lovers would like to hear it. We need some more good ideas.
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Can somebody tell me quick if you see a trailer of horses that you know are being hauled off for Slaughter who do you call to track them down the highways!!! I just saw a trailer full of horses between Laredo and Austin Texas that pulled into a gas station truck stop and store!!!
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