BLM gives the US Public and Federal Judge the Finger

Roundup Began Today Despite Federal Court Advice, Pending Federal Environmental Complaints and Violation of BLM Promise for Public Transparency

The "starving" horses taken by the BLM from Pryor Mountain - Photo by Terry Fitch

Public outrage is increasing as the Obama Administration  proceeds with a controversial Christmas week roundup of thousands of wild Nevada mustangs despite a federal court’s suggestion last week that the action be postponed.

Today, the Interior Department’s Bureau of Land Management (BLM) began the cruel wild horse capture in secret, on private lands where the public will be barred from observing the treatment of the horses.  In response, In Defense of Animals (IDA) today released video of BLM chief Don Glenn, stating at a public meeting in Reno on December 7 that “All of our gathers are open to the public; the public is invited to watch all the time.” See the VIDEO.

Just a day before Glenn made that statement, the BLM completed the roundup of 217 horses on the California/Nevada border, an action that was taken illegally with no public notification. Two weeks later, the BLM denied a request by an IDA observer to witness a helicopter stampede of horses living in the Palomino Buttes area in Eastern Oregon , stating “no observers would be allowed or welcome at this roundup.”

“Directly counter to the spirit of the Obama Administration’s promise of transparency, the President is allowing the BLM to secretly begin the roundup of thousands of wild horses living peacefully on more than one-half million acres of public lands in Nevada,” said Elliot M. Katz, DVM, IDA president. “This roundup will commence out of view of the public during a holiday week when government officials are off on holiday and have been unable to address complaints and a formal Motion to Stay (stop) the roundup. This action reflects very poorly on the BLM and most of all on the Obama Administration.”

In a December 23, 2009 decision, U.S. District Court Judge Paul Friedman said that the BLM’s plans to stockpile these horses in Midwestern holding facilities is likely illegal, and consequently suggested that BLM postpone the Calico gather.  That ruling, combined with the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) violations cited in IDA’s complaints to the White House Council on Environmental Quality and the Interior Department, should warrant President Obama’s intervention to stop this roundup immediately, IDA said.

Judge Friedman’s decision was made in response to a federal lawsuit filed by IDA, Nevada ecologist Craig Downer and noted children’s writer Terri Farley, also a Nevada resident, to halt the roundup, which involves a helicopter stampede and capture of 2,700 horses in the more than 500,000-acre Calico Mountains Complex in northwestern Nevada.  The horses will be traumatized, terrorized, and many will be injured and/or killed. Foals and their mothers will be separated and horse family bands will be shattered forever

In a 2008 report, the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) found that the BLM was not transparent with the public about how horses are treated under its Wild Horse and Burro management program.

“For America ’s wild horses, President Obama’s promise of change rings hollow,” said IDA president Elliot M. Katz, DVM.  “His administration has continued the same secretive and destructive Bush Administration war on the wild horses of the American West.”

IDA said that wild horses are removed for the benefit of private livestock owners and other extractive users of public lands.  Despite a Congressional mandate to protect wild horses in the Calico Complex, the BLM has in recent times increased the number of  cattle to run on the same public lands where they are removing wild horses. The BLM ignores its federal mandate to remove livestock from federal wild horse management areas “if necessary to provide habitat for wild horses or burros, to implement herd management actions, or to protect wild horses or burros from disease, harassment or injury” (43 CFR § 4710.5).

If the Administration continues its current course, it will capture and remove nearly 12,000 wild horses a year from their native Western homes for the next three years, after which time the number of horses in Midwestern holding facilities will number more than 50,000 and far exceed those left on the range.

Contact:
Suzanne Roy, Program Director, In Defense of Animals
919-697-9389;
sroy@idausa.org

Eric Kleiman, Research Director, In Defense of Animals
717-939-3231

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48 comments on “BLM gives the US Public and Federal Judge the Finger

  1. Is ther some way for someone to fly a plane higher up but close enough to see anything?

    And are these wild horses on public land, being run onto someones private property for this purpose?

    Or are they already on private property?

    The latter seems oddly out of proportion. Of approximatley 2500 hundred horses to be rounded up, half the round-up time to be spent on private property, in my mind is half the horses. That many are on someones private property?

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  2. The horses are on Paiute Native Reservation land. That is more than private. There are 2 helicopters and there would be an airspace ban for safety. Supposedly. There are people doing all they can. The horses coming fromthe res will be going to Fallon where the feed lot is a staging place for taking horses to slaughter. These horses may be sold from res lands. The Paiute do sell horses to slaughter.

    This is really bad. Horses from BLM land will be going to Palomino Valley holding where Terry Farley has promised to watch them and keep track. mar

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    • So they chase the horses onto private land (the reservation), then they are trespassing and become a nuisance, then they can become “owned” by the Piaute and can be sold for slaughter? REALLY REALLY BAD!

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  3. I guess my question would be, did someone or something herd the equines onto private land/reservation for the purpose of unfettered roundup? Or is this a function of their migration patterns? Maybe BLM is doing the round-up right now because the equines ARE on land where they go direct to slaughter. Why is it that mustangs/burros status appears to change based on physical location? Anyone know?

    Are flight plans public record? I know they are required to be filed.

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    • Paiute land is private land and I think the horses have some access, but what is being said by BLM is this is Their Access point, to come in and take out horses. There are roads that come into these mountains and some do not go through… mar

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  4. All our protest seem to be in vain. Phone calls to the White House and local representatives, petitions, protests, celebrity endorsements and yet these horses are being rounded up, terrorized and killed. Is there no one who will listen to us? What’s to be done at this point? Tell me and I will do it.

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  5. I’ve been watching all of the news channels for weeks. The entire administration is OUT OF CONTROL. The will of the few in control is being shoved down the American peoples’ throats and federal spending is SO out of control. So the BLM is just keeping the status quot, their orders may well be coming from the (very) top.

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  6. Ya know, the BML says that the wild horses do so much damage to the land that they have to round them up and slaughter them basicly, so the cattle can have more land to graze and all that other BS. I’ve seen what herds of cattle do to land and it is far worse than a herd of horses. The government and the BML are not using their heads. Why not just be smart about it and tell the truth about why they are doing these things. Instead they lie. I understand that the horse populations is out of controle but what about the race horse breeders that sell the race horses that arnt what they want to are to slow or are just alittle old, people buy them, they find out they have more serious ploblem or injuries or are just to bull headed and they give them away or the send them to slaughter or they turn them loose, what about those people. not just racing breeders but any big breeder, Why isnt anything being done about that. Atleast the mustangs have true blood and history. I dont mean to offend anyone, i just think things need to be done alot differently.

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  7. Anyone interested should visit the website of the people who want to round up horses and re-open the slaughterhouses. Their phone numbers are on the contact page. Let them know how you feel. These people include former Senator Conrad Burns, who slipped in the ” Burns Amendment” which sent mustangs to slaughter. Please visit their site: http://www.unitedorgsofthehorse.org Nice name, not so nice people.

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  8. The DOI/BLM has been giving the equines, burros, environment and US citizens the finger since the mid-1970’s with a ton of KY from Congress….gotta love democracy, don’t ya’! I always like to get a good kiss before I get screwed. Didn’t even get that.

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  9. First of all, it sounds like the judge made a wishy-washy suggestion, not an actual ruling. So what is *that* worth?! Nothing.
    Hopefully this will be fully documented.
    What can most of us do? What comes to mind are two things:
    EAT A helluva lot less beef…boycott beef if you can
    Contribute to the organizations that have the most legal clout, such as In Defense of Animals…they do not shy away from lawsuits.
    BLM – Bureau of Land Mismanagement.

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    • Thanks for the links. My question about flight plan filing requirements (and I really didn’t want to post this on a public forum) was to find out if Cattoor has been flying well in advance of the Dec 28th date to move the equines TO a private location, for the obvious reasons. That would be valuable info.

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      • i’ve also wonder if the contractors were being paid for the last month, since the roundup was scheduled to start at the beginning of december & was postponed. think that they would have been paid for all that time that they DIDN’T work? any way we can check that out, too? oh, & how much will we taxpayers be paying for the cattoors to stay at that lovely little ranch bed & breakfast at soldier meadows ranch (which, according to THEIR website,will be closed for the month of february) ? & will the roundup that takes place at soldiers meadow ranch be public???? (check out the little blurb at the bottom of cattoor’s main webpage).

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      • D. Masters and jo bunny,

        Yes, I would suppose the contracts would have to be fulfilled, as there is no breach of contract by the roundup people.

        Speaking of contracts – don’t these go through public review and have to be posted somewhere well in advance? I know that is true with city and state contracts (but I know shaddy dealings go on there too occasionally – but a whatchfull public can catch them and does fairly regularly – lots of folks in prison for this).

        But the contract may not need to be that specific – given areas and totals, I’m not sure they have to be date specific for any particular area.

        Really good question though – the area and number of horses would or should have been posted in the contract, and it could be, therfore, traced whether they have been flying the horses from public lands onto private lands during this spell of time.

        No surprise a BLM site is down – they seem to be good at that!

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      • Don’t you think they have had contractors for this
        hay for a good while as the holding places have been the same and full of horses for years?

        Also, we should find out if any helicopters flew without a flight plan and then ground the suckers.
        mar

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      • The helicopter pilots doing the “unscheduled” Buckhorn HMA round-up in early December (that “discovered” the six wild horses who had been shot) would have been flying in the same general area as the Calico Complex.

        I think I understood the question about the FAA and flight plans.

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      • The thing about Buckhorn is it is well south of where the dead horses were supposedly found. I have a feeling we were misdirected by BLM about more than we have uncovered yet.

        I Have gotten so I barely want to say anything online because we have to find more info and use it to shut down the roundups. mar

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  10. There is another side the roundup. People are struggling to feed their horses now. Hay prices have gone up 10%-40% and salaries have been going down. It doesn’t take much to figure out that as BLM has more horses to feed hay to that they are going to hit the hay market hard. BLM is going to force hay prices up which will hurt many rescues and private horse owners. Wonder if that can be used?

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    • Wonder which side of this issue hay providers are on? And which ones directly supply hay to feed the wild horses? That could easily be investigated and researched. I suspect some of them will probably talk out of both sides of thier mouths. But if wild horse advocates, that buy hay, could determine this – there is another possible boycott, at least some sort of pressure to cause the hay providers to stay neutral, if nothing else. And, possible to find out what the “government contract price” for that hay is – something like the $200 hammer, or the $1000 toilet seats? I have become somewhat disalusioned with Clinton/Gore era, but at least they cracked that and required government contracts at “market prices” – probably was a big impact on how they balanced the budget – wonder what has occured since then?

      I wonder if the helicopter prices and the trucking prices, the whole roundup contracts should be investigated for inflated amounts?

      I started boycotting Purina a while back (no big impact on may part – just my duty) due to their dog shows and the overbreeding in the dog “business”. Just part of my “one person” campaign to support “Puppies are not Products”. What I still need to do is find all thier affiliates and boycott them too.

      My perspective is this – one might make the very best product on the market, but if made with dirty money (including over inlfated government contracts) then I’ll make due with someone elses product! And I’ll bad mouth yours all the way to the market and back again.

      We have the keys! WE have all kinds of power!

      SAVE THE WILD HORSES!

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      • Roxy, the ones that supply to the BLM have a racket going with marked up prices far higher than standard retail. The BLM cares little as it is YOUR money. The hay contractors, like the helicopter contractors, are making a killing, literally.

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    • R.T. as I suspected – everything inflated govenment contract prices – hay, helicopters, the whole shabang! We need to get our hands on that evidence and plaster it all over YouTube, PBS and the press. People that don’t give a hoot about wild horses will give a hoot and possibly a hollar about this.

      What a bunch of scum bags, the whole lot of them – they are robbers and horse thiefs both! (“Wining friends and influencing people” down the drain again!)

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      • There’s the potential for some more fiscal information that may be made public soon that will cause everyone to suck air.

        It’s like peeling an onion, you pull off one layer and there’s another and another and another and another…the BLM is a convoluted mess of lies, secrets, back room deals and mismanagement.

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  11. Why don’t you people if you are really so concerned just all band together and each of you send $200 a month to the BLM so they can have the funds to care for the horses….that is the real issue……no money to acutally take care of them. They now spend 3/4 of their budget on board for the horses no one wants. NO ONE WANTS them, except you…..so, please step up and support them.

    And to farmgirl, are you really?? Horses do much greater damage to grasslands than cattle ever thought about doing……..

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    • Karen, Appropriations gave BLM extra millions to Feed those horses and they Chose to step up the roundups against many warnings from congress, senate and Government Accounting Office, in order to be rid of as many wild horses and burros from Our Public Land as possible. So they are putting more horses into holding that need to be fed while the Calico round up will cost over $3 million by the time it is over. Unless we stop it and save horses and money that BLM cares nothing about. We want the wild ones wild and the holding horses set free. That costs less than all the bull and abuse that BLM has handed out. They Are Our horses and we do want to take care of them the best way possible; on their lands. Mar

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    • Karen, According to the National Academy of Sciences Study cattle consume 70% of grazing resources on public land as compared to Less than 5% consumed by horses and burros.

      This past summer I spent along the West Dolores River, San Juan Mtns. Colorado, and when the cows came in June, the elk left, the grass along the river was gone by August, the cows had to be moved by a wrangler because they stay by water. They muddied the water the fly fisherman used, erosion set in along the bare river bank whenever it rained, widening the river more. I have seen this all my life. Horses are moving when they graze and can cover land away from water and then return as needed. They are nothing like sheep and cattle, you are soooo wrong. Mar

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    • Karen, I won’t reiterate everything that Marilyn and Vickie have already so aptly posed back to you.

      I’ll go another route. I got interested in wild horses again, late in life. I had a wild horse as a child, but frankly, until about 8 or 9 months ago, I just assumed there were wild horses, and they were protected, and not given much thought. I accidentally stumbled onto the PBS Cloud shows and that rekindled a long buried love of wild horses.

      But I’m even going to put that aside, because I have another concern of equal importance.

      I’ll put it this way, so you will understand – Karen – for sake of argument let’s say wild horses be dammed. But my paying and you paying tax dollars to a corrupt system must be dammed! Look, wild horses on their already owned land, that we already pay our tax dollars for, eating their own forage, and being managed by natural predation, – COST = ZERO. Occasional additional management by man if really needed – COST = NEGLIGABLE.

      Current and ongoing costs to line the pockets of a few helicopter roundup crews, trucking, leasing the holding pens land, the cost of the feed (all of which I will add are most likely at highly inflated numbers) = MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of your tax dollars for no reson other than the greed of just a few. Ever notice that these BLM roundups occur on holidays? BLM overtime – that shuld be clue enough ofr any thinking person to investigate further! This is not rocket science. There is more than enough documented evidence that horses just do not ruin the land and are not starving. Just check it out.

      And to debunk a myth – wild horse advocates are not ANTI wild horse management. We are PRO rational science based management. And until real scientific evidence is provided to determine the need for the current management efforts, not scientific reports bought and paid for by cattle and energy, or tampered with by the Bush administration (remember WMD and Iraq, EPA reports?) there should be a moratorium – what is just one year, even just six months to sort this out and prepare a program that suites everyone’s interests and protects the land and saves the wild horses?

      Other than that I’ll ask you the same question I ask often – re-read Marilyn’s and Vickie’s answers, then ask yourself, why is it necessary for you and others to take away this little bit of thing from those of us that care for it? It really is such a little thing in the grand scheme:

      Don’t you have something of interest in your life, maybe something you really love, that not all others in society would have the same concern for? I bet you do! We would not take that away from you – why do you rampage so against us? From just one human to another human – I cannot make any sense of it!

      PS we are all, you included, already banned together to pay for these poor horses held in prison – its called taxes! And we are all being robbed. Robbed by horse thieves!

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    • I was writing as Laura was writing, and I’m sure there will be more replies to you.

      Just do one little thing, as I devoured the BLM websites and the cattle websites, and read some of the energy conumption concerns, so I could understand all sides of this issue.

      Please, just go to The Cloud Foundation and In Defense of Animals. Follow the links and stories. Read Gus Cothran and Craig Downer, both ecology scientists, and so many others, find “Stampede to Oblivion” on Google.

      And if you make statements like “Horses do much greater damage to grasslands than cattle ever thought about doing” you better know right off the bat, we will require that you proivde us with links to that evidence, whether they be videos, pictures, science reports, etc. or don’t waist your finger taps because it will fall on our deaf ears to that…we alrady know that is not true, but will be happy t look at whatever evidence you can provide. And, anyway Ken Salazar, in his attempt to sell the Salazar zoo plan has already stated that horses will greatly improve the range lands in the east and midwest. Actually, if you really believe cattle are so great, why don’t we put the cattle from public lands on those zoos in the east and midwest – maybe someone will pay to watch cattle grazing. Then give all that land back to the horses.

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    • Karen,
      Our tax dollars already support the wild horses and burros to roam freely on PUBLIC LAND. You say that there is no money to take care of them. Huh? The BLM budget was increased substantially because the BLM cried that they didn’t have enough money to feed the horses. So, how are they using the money? Oh yes, to roundup more horses. Why should we pay private ranches to keep our wild horses and burros ie holding facilities? The BLM spends millions of tax dollars every year to keep our wild horses and burros in holding facilities. All the BLM has to do is release these wild horses and burros back to their homes and allow them to roam free and be with their families.

      Why in the world should taxpayers pay 1 million dollars for a helicopter to round up our wild horses and burros? We don’t want our taxpayer dollars on such extravaganza. Oh, and let’s not forget how the BLM seems so good at selecting holiday week-ends so they get extra pay to UNnecessarily roundup our wild horses. The BLM ignored the scientific findings including peer-reviewed literature showing clearly that the CATTLE degrade the riparian and rangeland NOT the wild horses and burros. The BLM conveniently deleted this information from their report and made conclusions that were the direct opposite of the experts. The BLM is a rogue agency that needs to be dissolved. I don’t want my hard-earned tax dollars spent on employees that defy the will of the majority of Americans.

      You are clearly biased toward the cattle in the face of scientific evidence that shows it is the cattle that do the destructive damage to the range land.

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  12. Karen, it doesn’t cost anything to leave the horses on the land. What needs to happen is the welfare ranchers need to move their privately owned livestock onto their privately own land. Millions and millions of livestock that have turned the public lands into a giant feedlot. They are ruining the ranges as reported in the 2008 GAO study. The wild horses were granted over 50 million acres. Althought over 20 million have been taken away from them, they can survive and fend for themselves just fine on the remaing 30 million acres. Surely you couldn’t argue that 20,000 horses could survive on 30 million acres?

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  13. Thats ok, as someone said I won’t waste my time here. Yes, I know about cattle….we raise cattle…..and horses…..and I also see the so called wild horses held on private property that the BLM is paying for……..I also see lots of PETA and HSUS names here that post on other places. I won’t bother…..but I will say…get off your duffs and go out and make a living the real way. You seem to care more about the fly fishermen than the ranchers that feed the nation. Personally, I don’t like fish.

    If I was not so busy taking care of my animals I would post sites…..because they are there. But you would not believe them anyway as you have already made up your minds and want us all to live as YOU do…..I refuse.

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    • Repost, RT, please delete the other one – I want ot make sure this goes to Karen.December 31, 2009 at 5:49 PM | #36 Reply | Quote BOTHER? Please would SOMEONE PLEASE BOTHER? I have been asking anti wild horse people for 8 months now for this doucmentation – NOT ONE SINGLE REPLY!!!!!!!! I promise you I will read every single word, study every single picture, research every single report – so please someone who can bother with it, bother with what they believe in, post it! We do – why don’t you?

      Yes, the horses in holding are sad depressed shells of thier beauty and spirit when on the range or in the keeping of loving owners, glad we agree on that.

      Making a living, thats an intersting assumption on your part. I, can only speak for myself, I am retired (forced early at half income from a construction based industry due to the economy, and no new jobs to go to) from a long career doing real work, thank you very much. I did not have much time for doing extra interests – pretty much a work aholic. And now I can spend some time on several causes that I have been interested in for a long time.

      I’m not PETA, I love my steaks! And I’m not anti Cattle on public lands, I’m anti cattle on the wild horses portion of the public lands! (I suppose I am also sort of anti giving you $123 million dollars a year in subsidies on top of leasing that land to you for a pittance, but thats a tiny amount compared to what BLM spends on current wild horse mismangement – actually, I feel like you are robbing me).

      But one day, when energy and mining come after you, you won’t have our backs then. And its already happening – there are at least 2 YouTubes from ranchers already several months ago, several reports on the internet – just Google. Or, we could, together, stop that in its tracks. The only reason they are going after horses first, is because cattle supports them.

      Fish – wow you sure did miss that point – it was about cattle ruining the land.

      But I did used to love to fish, camp, even used to hunt in my earlier days – old bones now days. But what great memories – things I wish todays grandchildren and great-children can pass on to their children – if there is any WILD left!

      So, because you don’t like fish, you don’t think others should like fish (sounds very PETA like to me, no disrepect meant to vegans). Anyway, sounded like an admission that you know the cattle are ruining the water banks to me.

      BTW cattle meat is not a necessity of life, you guys may cause me to change to bison! You, know thats the problem, and I did it too, just now – “you guys”, its that we keep dividing ourselves, then lumping each side into neat little misconceptions that fit ourselves, not the problem. I think we could work this out together –

      Its BLM and their contractors that are robbing us both, and stealing our horses at the same time, and there will be no more public land soon enough for any of us at this rate.

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    • Karen- Welcome to this forum. I for one don’t want you to think you are wasting your time here. Perspectives from all angles should have a voice. If you would like to post stats or studies regarding wild horse and range management, please do. Please quote independent information (not BLM facts & figures) you can’t assume the BLM is always correct in their “assessment” of things. I DO NOT belong to PETA or the HSUS. I live in the midwest, own horses and contribute much needed hard earned dollars to Wild Horse rescues who are trying very hard to help the horses already in captivity. Its a loosing battle, how can we save these horses, (and thus tax dollars) educate the public and encourage WH&B adoptions when the BLM keeps filling the corrals back up? This is only one point from a strictly monetary perspective. The BLM must stop rounding up more and more horses to feed and adding them to the already overflowing BLM facilities. From what I understand the BLM had to lease a private feedlot to store the horses currently being rounded up from Nevada. This fact alone is absolutely ridiculous and should make you as mad as it does me. The BLM continues to say the horses need to be removed to keep the “thriving ecological balance” of the land, those “fly fishermen” have a right to utilize the public land, this should have no bearing on feeding the nation. I know beef prices in my local stores are lower now then they have been in years. Since the market is driven by supply and demand, less beef in the market should increase prices and thus make you, the beef farmer higher profits. I will close in saying I am bothering to read these blogs, post my comments and educate myself on what is going on in this country so I can form an educated perspective.

      Karen, its not just about the horses anymore, its about our FREEDOM, our rights and the ability to voice our opinions. I will continue to do that until my rights are taken away by the rogues in this administration who have clearing run a muck. God Bless America.

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  14. BOTHER? Please would SOMEONE PLEASE BOTHER? I have been asking anti wild horse people for 8 months now for this doucmentation – NOT ONE SINGLE REPLY!!!!!!!! I promise you I will read every single word, study every single picture, research every single report – so please someone who can bother with it, bother with what they believe in, post it! We do – why don’t you?

    Yes, the horses in holding are sad depressed shells of thier beauty and spirit when on the range or in the keeping of loving owners, glad we agree on that.

    Making a living, thats an intersting assumption on your part. I, can only speak for myself, I am retired (forced early at half income from a construction based industry due to the economy, and no new jobs to go to) from a long career doing real work, thank you very much. I did not have much time for doing extra interests – pretty much a work aholic. And now I can spend some time on several causes that I have been interested in for a long time.

    I’m not PETA, I love my steaks! And I’m not anti Cattle on public lands, I’m anti cattle on the wild horses portion of the public lands! (I suppose I am also sort of anti giving you $123 million dollars a year in subsidies on top of leasing that land to you for a pittance, but thats a tiny amount compared to what BLM spends on current wild horse mismangement – actually, I feel like you are robbing me).

    But one day, when energy and mining come after you, you won’t have our backs then. And its already happening – there are at least 2 YouTubes from ranchers already several months ago, several reports on the internet – just Google. Or, we could, together, stop that in its tracks. The only reason they are going after horses first, is because cattle supports them.

    Fish – wow you sure did miss that point – it was about cattle ruining the land.

    But I did used to love to fish, camp, even used to hunt in my earlier days – old bones now days. But what great memories – things I wish todays grandchildren and great-children can pass on to their children – if there is any WILD left!

    So, because you don’t like fish, you don’t think others should like fish (sounds very PETA like to me, no disrepect meant to vegans). Anyway, sounded like an admission that you know the cattle are ruining the water banks to me.

    BTW cattle meat is not a necessity of life, you guys may cause me to change to bison! You, know thats the problem, and I did it too, just now – “you guys”, its that we keep dividing ourselves, then lumping each side into neat little misconceptions that fit ourselves, not the problem. I think we could work this out together –

    Its BLM and their contractors that are robbing us both, and stealing our horses at the same time, and there will be no more public land soon enough for any of us at this rate.

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  15. We have all adequately expressed our opinions…to each other. The question remains: What can we do now? Times definitely have changed, folks. The BLM, as said, is giving us “the finger”. Since the last administration (I won’t name names, lol), it’s become de rigeur for agencies to take on the “in your face” attitude. Somehow, we will find a way. We won’t give up. Why? Because what they are doing is morally WRONG and indefensible and we must not accept it as a given.

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  16. Sorry I didn’t mean to dis anybody’s comments about wasting time and “finger taps” here, today. I was hoping to encourage this person to continue the debate here. Maybe she’ll learn something, we can only hope…

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    • Kas, Oh, I was just trying to tell her if she is going to say something, back it up, or don’t waste your finger taps. Never need to applogize to me anyway – and you make a good point. I hope, I bet, she is looking further already.

      We all know, that we have changed our minds about things along the road, as we have learned, sometimes, we have changed our minds and found out it was wrong (then forge quickly into damage control!), but as you said, we did that by forming educated perspectives and questioning and digging.

      And, whats that old saying – there are only 3 constants – taxes, death, and things are always going to change!

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    • Kas, of course. I’m talking to “them” now – not you, you already now these things. And I’m repeating myself, but only horrid visions of those freezing wet horses all night, I guess I’m a little “worked up” today – no, make that “terrified” that this is occuring, and I promise this is my last for today, maybe few days – I’m going to the movies – keep the cheers down, I can hear you from here!

      I will not have cattle backs if they continue to grab these last few acres from our horses, and continue using our wild horses pulbic lands – they need to give that back. How much more time should I give them? Who are “they”, really, BLM? DOI? Obama? Family cattle ranchers or corporations? I don’t really know. I can only suppose at this time.

      Yes, if we could work together with cattle, if they just did not “have to have” those extra, should be 57,000 +/- (/) horses gone so they can have 57,000 cow calf pairs on top of the already MILLIONS – that MILLIONS – of cattle on Public Lands that are not on our wild horses portion.

      Like little children at this point in time, trying to grab up all the marbles that don’t belong to them, thier pockets already full of thier own marbles, and throwing tantrums with nothing to back them up – they have stolen our horses land, are stealing our horses, robbing our taxes, commiting animal cruelty (knowledge of a crime is the same as personally comitting it) and continue to do so right in the light of day, right under everyones noses, simple as that. THis cannot seriouly be “them”, meaning cattle interests, own doing – they have been dupped, they are being led like a bull with a ring in its nose, speaking of noses. I now that feeling, I even have compassion for them in that regard, my nose still stings from several of these type events myself!

      kas, back to you – Thanks for the USDA post about horses respiration – more cruelty to post about on YouTube!

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    • Kas – duh on me -so sorries needed. I should caught your meaning.

      I think we are so struggling right now – working so hard, wishing so much!

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      • Roxy- Maybe I didn’t word it quite right, no apologies… emotions are running very high, overflowing is more like it. We being the “weaker” sex (haha) sometimes get carried away.

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    • Excellent info!

      kas, I asked R.T. to forward you my e-mail address you, but he is very busy – have not made it to Morgans site yet as you requested – I will really try to work on that this week – classes starting soon so I’ll be out of the loop here for a while – bummer, but back with better tools. Maybe by then the moretorium will have occured, many good changes will have occured – my hope everyday!

      Yes, regarding an earlier reply to me – emotions are running high. Pryor was bad too. This time we don’t know what is really happening – imaginations run wild! Then we do get a picture and it confirms our worst nightmares (I could walk from my house to a pshyco hospital at least – I HOPE I’m just kidding!).

      And a full moon to boot!

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